4 ms·

What’s wrong with hibernation, ssd wear? (Asking because I hibernate all the time as sleep is still buggy on my framework)

al_borland 3y ago
Is it the S3 sleep issue LTT highlighted, or something else? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OHKKcd3sx2c https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OHKKcd3sx2c
- deleted 3y ago
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- user_7832 3y ago
  I think it might be this. Funnily running powercfg –energy in cmd reported > S1 Sleep Supported false S2 Sleep Supported false S3 Sleep Supported false S4 Sleep Supported true Which... seems quite wrong given I can put my laptop to sleep lol. But thanks for the pointer, even though I was aware LTT did the video on sleep it'd fallen out of my memory (pun not intended). Edit: I think I partially solved it. Running powercfg /a reveals... The following sleep states are available on this system: Standby (S0 Low Power Idle) Network Connected Hibernate Fast Startup The following sleep states are not available on this system: Standby (S1) The system firmware does not support this standby state. This standby state is disabled when S0 low power idle is supported. Standby (S2) The system firmware does not support this standby state. This standby state is disabled when S0 low power idle is supported. Standby (S3) The system firmware does not support this standby state. This standby state is disabled when S0 low power idle is supported. Hybrid Sleep Standby (S3) is not available. The hypervisor does not support this standby state. (I have hyper V enabled.) So it does look like S0 sleep is the culprit.
afr0ck 3y ago
Hibernation success also depends on device driver support and so many devices don't correctly support hibernation, for example, by failing to come back to life after machine is resumed, or certain functions becoming broken due to software/hardware bugs.
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  Does it? Not really? This is one of the best parts about hibernation. Shutting down is saving state. Booting? The kernel starts booting as usual, entirely the same as a normal boot. It gets quite far along, has already loaded a bunch of drivers, and then it finds the hibernation state & loads that. Where-as with most s3 and s2idle suspends, there really is a lot of system level bios support required to make things happen. Many systems just do it wrong, not to spec, or desktops often not at all. These are non-issues in hibernation. To your point though, I did have a laptop on which the wifi would disappear every other hibernation. I'd tend to hibernate it, immediately wake it up, and hibernate again, so when I really turned it on it would be good to go. For a while I had been packing a USB wifi card because I hadn't put it together. So yeah I've seen issues. A kernel upgrade half a decade ago seemed to have fixed that, but yeah I guess it's some evidence of problems. Still, the amount of time I've spent trying to get systems to suspend has been long & sad & difficult, with little evidence of what's happening. Hibernation has been a pretty reliable & consistent tool that I feel like I can almost always rely on.
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kennethrc 3y ago
I also ensure hibernation is set up on my laptops, and systemd has this hybrid sleep-first-then-hibernate thing where I've got the hibernation set for 4H of sleep. As my Dell 9320 doesn't have "real" S3 sleep, just the s0ix "connected standby" thing (which uses a lot more power when idle, despite my best efforts) it means I still have battery left if I don't use my laptop for more than 3 days.
- robocat 3y ago
  I disable sleep on Linux because sometimes the laptop would wake up and either overheat in a bag or just make the battery dead-flat. Both those outcomes are highly undesirable. Old Dell XPS so sleep and hibernate are supported. I find boot times quick enough on modern laptops that shutting down and restart is fine. If I want to leave session alive during the day I just lock it and leave it running. Hibernate is enabled for if battery gets low but I hardly ever manually hibernate.
  - kennethrc 3y ago
    > I find boot times quick enough on modern laptops that shutting down and restart is fine. How mobile are you with your laptop? If I had to restart (i.e., lose all my xterms' state, etc.) every time I'd stopped using my laptop for a day or so it would totally kill my workflow

al_borland 3y ago

Is it the S3 sleep issue LTT highlighted, or something else? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OHKKcd3sx2c https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OHKKcd3sx2c

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
user_7832 3y ago
I think it might be this. Funnily running powercfg –energy in cmd reported > S1 Sleep Supported false S2 Sleep Supported false S3 Sleep Supported false S4 Sleep Supported true Which... seems quite wrong given I can put my laptop to sleep lol. But thanks for the pointer, even though I was aware LTT did the video on sleep it'd fallen out of my memory (pun not intended). Edit: I think I partially solved it. Running powercfg /a reveals... The following sleep states are available on this system: Standby (S0 Low Power Idle) Network Connected Hibernate Fast Startup The following sleep states are not available on this system: Standby (S1) The system firmware does not support this standby state. This standby state is disabled when S0 low power idle is supported. Standby (S2) The system firmware does not support this standby state. This standby state is disabled when S0 low power idle is supported. Standby (S3) The system firmware does not support this standby state. This standby state is disabled when S0 low power idle is supported. Hybrid Sleep Standby (S3) is not available. The hypervisor does not support this standby state. (I have hyper V enabled.) So it does look like S0 sleep is the culprit.

afr0ck 3y ago

Hibernation success also depends on device driver support and so many devices don't correctly support hibernation, for example, by failing to come back to life after machine is resumed, or certain functions becoming broken due to software/hardware bugs.

jauntywundrkind 3y ago
Does it? Not really? This is one of the best parts about hibernation. Shutting down is saving state. Booting? The kernel starts booting as usual, entirely the same as a normal boot. It gets quite far along, has already loaded a bunch of drivers, and then it finds the hibernation state & loads that. Where-as with most s3 and s2idle suspends, there really is a lot of system level bios support required to make things happen. Many systems just do it wrong, not to spec, or desktops often not at all. These are non-issues in hibernation. To your point though, I did have a laptop on which the wifi would disappear every other hibernation. I'd tend to hibernate it, immediately wake it up, and hibernate again, so when I really turned it on it would be good to go. For a while I had been packing a USB wifi card because I hadn't put it together. So yeah I've seen issues. A kernel upgrade half a decade ago seemed to have fixed that, but yeah I guess it's some evidence of problems. Still, the amount of time I've spent trying to get systems to suspend has been long & sad & difficult, with little evidence of what's happening. Hibernation has been a pretty reliable & consistent tool that I feel like I can almost always rely on.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

kennethrc 3y ago

I also ensure hibernation is set up on my laptops, and systemd has this hybrid sleep-first-then-hibernate thing where I've got the hibernation set for 4H of sleep. As my Dell 9320 doesn't have "real" S3 sleep, just the s0ix "connected standby" thing (which uses a lot more power when idle, despite my best efforts) it means I still have battery left if I don't use my laptop for more than 3 days.

robocat 3y ago
I disable sleep on Linux because sometimes the laptop would wake up and either overheat in a bag or just make the battery dead-flat. Both those outcomes are highly undesirable. Old Dell XPS so sleep and hibernate are supported. I find boot times quick enough on modern laptops that shutting down and restart is fine. If I want to leave session alive during the day I just lock it and leave it running. Hibernate is enabled for if battery gets low but I hardly ever manually hibernate.
- kennethrc 3y ago
  > I find boot times quick enough on modern laptops that shutting down and restart is fine. How mobile are you with your laptop? If I had to restart (i.e., lose all my xterms' state, etc.) every time I'd stopped using my laptop for a day or so it would totally kill my workflow