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"We cannot read or give anyone else access to your emails." is completely false, Proton can read emails sent or received from non-proton infrastructure. They ha

"We cannot read or give anyone else access to your emails." is completely false, Proton can read emails sent or received from non-proton infrastructure. They have to. I mean just look at the end-to-end encryption block, it's such an obvious dark pattern to make people believe they're getting end to end encryption, but when you actually read it they don't claim it at all, but how is someone who doesn't understand technobabble supposed to know that? They're just trying to pretend it's the same thing. If Proton was an American company they would have been fined into the ground for this stunt. Google wasn't even safe from the Incognito mode lawsuit.

lolinder 3y ago
Here's that block for reference: > With Proton Mail, emails are encrypted at all times, so we can never access your messages. The content of your emails is encrypted on your device before being sent to our servers, meaning only you and your intended recipient can decrypt it. > You can also use our Password-protected Emails feature to quickly send end-to-end encrypted emails to any email address, not just Proton Mail accounts. That first sentence, if left alone, could be interpreted to include incoming email from non-Proton Mail accounts. But as soon as you keep reading it clears that right up: * It clearly says that the security comes from encrypting outbound email on your device. * It clearly says that there is a way to encrypt outgoing email even to non-Proton Mail accounts. This isn't technobabble either, it's using terminology that is as accessible to laypeople as possible while still being precise in its language.
- overstay8930 3y ago
  > But as soon as you keep reading it clears that right up C'mon man, even you should know how much BS that is. They are misleading people and they know it, just hoping nobody reads the fine print. I have 0 trust in Proton because of this shit. It doesn't matter what they say in the fine print, telling people there's strong encryption at all times right next to "end-to-end encryption" would fool anyone into thinking Proton can't read email in transit to non-Proton emails (in fact they even claim this, and it's false). They wouldn't be able to gain any users if they told the truth that they are the same as any other email provider except when they email their own users. They even have the gall to say they offer a more secure business email but don't offer SAML or log integration, very basic things any actual business is required to have if they want to even meet baseline security measures.
  - lolinder 3y ago
    It's not fine print, it's the second sentence of the main body text! If someone can't be bothered to even read beyond the first sentence of the marketing page, then privacy and encryption aren't actually important to them, it's just an aesthetic.

lolinder 3y ago

Here's that block for reference: > With Proton Mail, emails are encrypted at all times, so we can never access your messages. The content of your emails is encrypted on your device before being sent to our servers, meaning only you and your intended recipient can decrypt it. > You can also use our Password-protected Emails feature to quickly send end-to-end encrypted emails to any email address, not just Proton Mail accounts. That first sentence, if left alone, could be interpreted to include incoming email from non-Proton Mail accounts. But as soon as you keep reading it clears that right up: * It clearly says that the security comes from encrypting outbound email on your device. * It clearly says that there is a way to encrypt outgoing email even to non-Proton Mail accounts. This isn't technobabble either, it's using terminology that is as accessible to laypeople as possible while still being precise in its language.

overstay8930 3y ago
> But as soon as you keep reading it clears that right up C'mon man, even you should know how much BS that is. They are misleading people and they know it, just hoping nobody reads the fine print. I have 0 trust in Proton because of this shit. It doesn't matter what they say in the fine print, telling people there's strong encryption at all times right next to "end-to-end encryption" would fool anyone into thinking Proton can't read email in transit to non-Proton emails (in fact they even claim this, and it's false). They wouldn't be able to gain any users if they told the truth that they are the same as any other email provider except when they email their own users. They even have the gall to say they offer a more secure business email but don't offer SAML or log integration, very basic things any actual business is required to have if they want to even meet baseline security measures.
- lolinder 3y ago
  It's not fine print, it's the second sentence of the main body text! If someone can't be bothered to even read beyond the first sentence of the marketing page, then privacy and encryption aren't actually important to them, it's just an aesthetic.