5 ms·

> PS we have very different definitions of 'self-deprecating'. It's self deprecating when you make ridiculously over the top statements about how awesome you a

> PS we have very different definitions of 'self-deprecating'. It's self deprecating when you make ridiculously over the top statements about how awesome you are because it makes you look like an idiot. That old "I'm a pretty big deal around here" chestnut. It is humour, whether or not it is taken as such is a different issue, when Bill Hicks gets up on stage and repeatedly tells people in advertising to kill themselves, he's not actually serious. Some might take that seriously but he's a comedian and it's humor. If an advertising exec is heinously offended that he was just repeatedly directly told he ought to kill himself because he will never amount to anything or accomplish anything good in his life, does that mean that it wasn't humor? You may well have a point about the venue potentially being inappropriate for this kind of thing, however to actually take the content of the comedy literally and seriously and be offended by it is just completely missing the point.

rictic 14y ago
The first two sentences of your comment are unrelated to the rest. The "I'm a pretty big deal" thing is just a joke. A lot of the greats have spun bits around it over the years (I think Steve Martin is among the best). That is exactly 0 defense for encouraging a room full of business people to say "Shut up bitch" or asking the (few) women in the room what business they have being there. To say that it's inappropriate doesn't begin to cover it. Have some empathy for the women in that room and those in our industry.
polemic 14y ago
> "It is humour, whether or not it is taken as such is a different issue, when Bill Hicks gets up on stage and repeatedly tells people in advertising to kill themselves, he's not actually serious. Some might take that seriously but he's a comedian and it's humor." Firstly, the standard of conduct for the moderator of a corporate event is not the same as for a comedian working his routine in a club. Secondly, Bill Hicks used outrageous punch-lines to underscore a biting social commentary to his paying audience. This guy used weak jokes to push misogyny onto a captive audience. I'm pretty sure Bill Hicks would have been less than impressed with you equating the two. > "however to actually take the content of the comedy literally and seriously and be offended by it is just completely missing the point." This is more misdirection ("oh, I didn't literally mean it, lighten up - I suggest you read this: http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/ http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/). I take the intent of the message seriously, and I find it offensive. It is not missing the point, but until you recognise the directly destructive effect of telling women they shouldn't even be there, even in jest, from the pulpit, you will won't get it either.
- etherael 14y ago
  "This guy was not funny" is a different criticism to "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary" is a different criticism to "This guy should not have been hired for this particular venue". The only thing I have a problem with is the statement "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary". And that is a large portion of the criticism here, it's missing the point.
  - fusiongyro 14y ago
    > "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary" is a different criticism to "This guy should not have been hired for this particular venue". Actually, in this case, in America, the former implies the latter. This kind of rhetoric simply isn't appropriate in this kind of venue, whether it's meant comedically or not.
    - chives 14y ago
      After reading the chain of comments above, I can't help but find your comment inappropriate. A) Someone gave a back story, that this guys is a actually a comedian. Do I get upset when a comedian makes fun of fat people? No, whether people laugh or not, it is quite obvious that it was a joke. Granted, it sounds like this guy was not funny despite females getting tossed under the proverbial bus, leading to point B) When its your company you can choose which ever speaker you like. Until then, your just going to have to settle with your opinion, which is frankly is neither relevant nor funny. And not a fuck was given.
      - fusiongyro 14y ago
        It's amusing to me that you construe my comment as inappropriate, but not this guy telling a room full of technical conference goers to tell their wives "Shut up, bitch!" I haven't even use a swear word yet. Of course this comic has the right to say this. Of course the company has a right to hire him. What I'm saying is that, in America, if a company did this, they would face the consequences. If people are offended because your company appears to support misogyny, you will lose business and "but he's a comedian!" will not suffice as an apology. At least, if you have been projecting an image of corporate neutrality. I suppose if your brand identity is, we're a bunch of brogrammer morons, it probably would help your image. But we're not talking about a company like that, we're talking about Dell.
ahi 14y ago
It's humor, but I'm pretty sure Bill Hicks was being serious about people in advertising killing themselves.
aptwebapps 14y ago
Nitpicking/clarifying a little bit: "It's self deprecating when you make ridiculously over the top statements about how awesome you are because it makes you look like an idiot." Usually self-deprecating humor has to be a little more direct to be called such. Conan O'Brien is an good example. Acting ridiculous is a different kind of humor if even if it does make you look like an ass.

rictic 14y ago

The first two sentences of your comment are unrelated to the rest. The "I'm a pretty big deal" thing is just a joke. A lot of the greats have spun bits around it over the years (I think Steve Martin is among the best). That is exactly 0 defense for encouraging a room full of business people to say "Shut up bitch" or asking the (few) women in the room what business they have being there. To say that it's inappropriate doesn't begin to cover it. Have some empathy for the women in that room and those in our industry.

polemic 14y ago

> "It is humour, whether or not it is taken as such is a different issue, when Bill Hicks gets up on stage and repeatedly tells people in advertising to kill themselves, he's not actually serious. Some might take that seriously but he's a comedian and it's humor." Firstly, the standard of conduct for the moderator of a corporate event is not the same as for a comedian working his routine in a club. Secondly, Bill Hicks used outrageous punch-lines to underscore a biting social commentary to his paying audience. This guy used weak jokes to push misogyny onto a captive audience. I'm pretty sure Bill Hicks would have been less than impressed with you equating the two. > "however to actually take the content of the comedy literally and seriously and be offended by it is just completely missing the point." This is more misdirection ("oh, I didn't literally mean it, lighten up - I suggest you read this: http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/ http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/). I take the intent of the message seriously, and I find it offensive. It is not missing the point, but until you recognise the directly destructive effect of telling women they shouldn't even be there, even in jest, from the pulpit, you will won't get it either.

etherael 14y ago
"This guy was not funny" is a different criticism to "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary" is a different criticism to "This guy should not have been hired for this particular venue". The only thing I have a problem with is the statement "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary". And that is a large portion of the criticism here, it's missing the point.
- fusiongyro 14y ago
  > "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary" is a different criticism to "This guy should not have been hired for this particular venue". Actually, in this case, in America, the former implies the latter. This kind of rhetoric simply isn't appropriate in this kind of venue, whether it's meant comedically or not.
  - chives 14y ago
    After reading the chain of comments above, I can't help but find your comment inappropriate. A) Someone gave a back story, that this guys is a actually a comedian. Do I get upset when a comedian makes fun of fat people? No, whether people laugh or not, it is quite obvious that it was a joke. Granted, it sounds like this guy was not funny despite females getting tossed under the proverbial bus, leading to point B) When its your company you can choose which ever speaker you like. Until then, your just going to have to settle with your opinion, which is frankly is neither relevant nor funny. And not a fuck was given.
    - fusiongyro 14y ago
      It's amusing to me that you construe my comment as inappropriate, but not this guy telling a room full of technical conference goers to tell their wives "Shut up, bitch!" I haven't even use a swear word yet. Of course this comic has the right to say this. Of course the company has a right to hire him. What I'm saying is that, in America, if a company did this, they would face the consequences. If people are offended because your company appears to support misogyny, you will lose business and "but he's a comedian!" will not suffice as an apology. At least, if you have been projecting an image of corporate neutrality. I suppose if your brand identity is, we're a bunch of brogrammer morons, it probably would help your image. But we're not talking about a company like that, we're talking about Dell.

ahi 14y ago

It's humor, but I'm pretty sure Bill Hicks was being serious about people in advertising killing themselves.

aptwebapps 14y ago

Nitpicking/clarifying a little bit: "It's self deprecating when you make ridiculously over the top statements about how awesome you are because it makes you look like an idiot." Usually self-deprecating humor has to be a little more direct to be called such. Conan O'Brien is an good example. Acting ridiculous is a different kind of humor if even if it does make you look like an ass.