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Here's the thing: it's not humour. It's misogyny thinly dressed as an "edgy" dig so that anyone who protests can be deflected with this sort of defence. It's a

by polemic 14y ago

Here's the thing: it's not humour. It's misogyny thinly dressed as an "edgy" dig so that anyone who protests can be deflected with this sort of defence. It's a tried and true technique to broadcast bigotry and slander with a wink and a nudge. I'm not saying you agree with his sentiments, but I am saying that it's not ok to say "it's just a joke". And it's not ok for Dell to let him continue to moderate their conference - even if they didn't realise what they were getting into, they should have removed him at the first sign things were not as they seemed. PS we have very different definitions of 'self-deprecating'.

etherael 14y ago
> PS we have very different definitions of 'self-deprecating'. It's self deprecating when you make ridiculously over the top statements about how awesome you are because it makes you look like an idiot. That old "I'm a pretty big deal around here" chestnut. It is humour, whether or not it is taken as such is a different issue, when Bill Hicks gets up on stage and repeatedly tells people in advertising to kill themselves, he's not actually serious. Some might take that seriously but he's a comedian and it's humor. If an advertising exec is heinously offended that he was just repeatedly directly told he ought to kill himself because he will never amount to anything or accomplish anything good in his life, does that mean that it wasn't humor? You may well have a point about the venue potentially being inappropriate for this kind of thing, however to actually take the content of the comedy literally and seriously and be offended by it is just completely missing the point.
- rictic 14y ago
  The first two sentences of your comment are unrelated to the rest. The "I'm a pretty big deal" thing is just a joke. A lot of the greats have spun bits around it over the years (I think Steve Martin is among the best). That is exactly 0 defense for encouraging a room full of business people to say "Shut up bitch" or asking the (few) women in the room what business they have being there. To say that it's inappropriate doesn't begin to cover it. Have some empathy for the women in that room and those in our industry.
- polemic 14y ago
  > "It is humour, whether or not it is taken as such is a different issue, when Bill Hicks gets up on stage and repeatedly tells people in advertising to kill themselves, he's not actually serious. Some might take that seriously but he's a comedian and it's humor." Firstly, the standard of conduct for the moderator of a corporate event is not the same as for a comedian working his routine in a club. Secondly, Bill Hicks used outrageous punch-lines to underscore a biting social commentary to his paying audience. This guy used weak jokes to push misogyny onto a captive audience. I'm pretty sure Bill Hicks would have been less than impressed with you equating the two. > "however to actually take the content of the comedy literally and seriously and be offended by it is just completely missing the point." This is more misdirection ("oh, I didn't literally mean it, lighten up - I suggest you read this: http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/ http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/). I take the intent of the message seriously, and I find it offensive. It is not missing the point, but until you recognise the directly destructive effect of telling women they shouldn't even be there, even in jest, from the pulpit, you will won't get it either.
  - etherael 14y ago
    "This guy was not funny" is a different criticism to "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary" is a different criticism to "This guy should not have been hired for this particular venue". The only thing I have a problem with is the statement "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary". And that is a large portion of the criticism here, it's missing the point.
    - fusiongyro 14y ago
      > "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary" is a different criticism to "This guy should not have been hired for this particular venue". Actually, in this case, in America, the former implies the latter. This kind of rhetoric simply isn't appropriate in this kind of venue, whether it's meant comedically or not.
      - chives 14y ago
- ahi 14y ago
  It's humor, but I'm pretty sure Bill Hicks was being serious about people in advertising killing themselves.
- aptwebapps 14y ago
  Nitpicking/clarifying a little bit: "It's self deprecating when you make ridiculously over the top statements about how awesome you are because it makes you look like an idiot." Usually self-deprecating humor has to be a little more direct to be called such. Conan O'Brien is an good example. Acting ridiculous is a different kind of humor if even if it does make you look like an ass.

by polemic 14y ago

etherael 14y ago

> PS we have very different definitions of 'self-deprecating'. It's self deprecating when you make ridiculously over the top statements about how awesome you are because it makes you look like an idiot. That old "I'm a pretty big deal around here" chestnut. It is humour, whether or not it is taken as such is a different issue, when Bill Hicks gets up on stage and repeatedly tells people in advertising to kill themselves, he's not actually serious. Some might take that seriously but he's a comedian and it's humor. If an advertising exec is heinously offended that he was just repeatedly directly told he ought to kill himself because he will never amount to anything or accomplish anything good in his life, does that mean that it wasn't humor? You may well have a point about the venue potentially being inappropriate for this kind of thing, however to actually take the content of the comedy literally and seriously and be offended by it is just completely missing the point.

rictic 14y ago
The first two sentences of your comment are unrelated to the rest. The "I'm a pretty big deal" thing is just a joke. A lot of the greats have spun bits around it over the years (I think Steve Martin is among the best). That is exactly 0 defense for encouraging a room full of business people to say "Shut up bitch" or asking the (few) women in the room what business they have being there. To say that it's inappropriate doesn't begin to cover it. Have some empathy for the women in that room and those in our industry.
polemic 14y ago
> "It is humour, whether or not it is taken as such is a different issue, when Bill Hicks gets up on stage and repeatedly tells people in advertising to kill themselves, he's not actually serious. Some might take that seriously but he's a comedian and it's humor." Firstly, the standard of conduct for the moderator of a corporate event is not the same as for a comedian working his routine in a club. Secondly, Bill Hicks used outrageous punch-lines to underscore a biting social commentary to his paying audience. This guy used weak jokes to push misogyny onto a captive audience. I'm pretty sure Bill Hicks would have been less than impressed with you equating the two. > "however to actually take the content of the comedy literally and seriously and be offended by it is just completely missing the point." This is more misdirection ("oh, I didn't literally mean it, lighten up - I suggest you read this: http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/ http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/). I take the intent of the message seriously, and I find it offensive. It is not missing the point, but until you recognise the directly destructive effect of telling women they shouldn't even be there, even in jest, from the pulpit, you will won't get it either.
- etherael 14y ago
  "This guy was not funny" is a different criticism to "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary" is a different criticism to "This guy should not have been hired for this particular venue". The only thing I have a problem with is the statement "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary". And that is a large portion of the criticism here, it's missing the point.
  - fusiongyro 14y ago
    > "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary" is a different criticism to "This guy should not have been hired for this particular venue". Actually, in this case, in America, the former implies the latter. This kind of rhetoric simply isn't appropriate in this kind of venue, whether it's meant comedically or not.
    - chives 14y ago
ahi 14y ago
It's humor, but I'm pretty sure Bill Hicks was being serious about people in advertising killing themselves.
aptwebapps 14y ago
Nitpicking/clarifying a little bit: "It's self deprecating when you make ridiculously over the top statements about how awesome you are because it makes you look like an idiot." Usually self-deprecating humor has to be a little more direct to be called such. Conan O'Brien is an good example. Acting ridiculous is a different kind of humor if even if it does make you look like an ass.