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I know it's fashionable to have a knee jerk reaction and not actually check backstory etc, but just quietly. http://www.madschristensen-foredrag.dk/mc/Aktuelt-o

I know it's fashionable to have a knee jerk reaction and not actually check backstory etc, but just quietly. http://www.madschristensen-foredrag.dk/mc/Aktuelt-og-media http://www.madschristensen-foredrag.dk/mc/Aktuelt-og-media This guy is clearly a comedian / over the top on purpose, to say that he actually genuinely believes the purposefully crafted bullshit on display in this particular article is to say that Les Patterson from Australia actually thinks that it's appropriate to be a permanent drunken idiot, or Guido Hatzis http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=domXumvTVI8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=domXumvTVI8 really thinks everything he says. Actually, do US comedians have this brand of self deprecating over the top humor? Nothing springs to mind, perhaps this is why it doesn't translate well? As to whether the choice of this guy was appropriate? Different question but even there you'd need to assume that the audience wouldn't "get" that this was all an act and honestly felt insulted by it. I guess it's already clear they've misjudged their audience but it maybe wasn't so obvious beforehand that this would actually be the result?

polemic 14y ago
Here's the thing: it's not humour. It's misogyny thinly dressed as an "edgy" dig so that anyone who protests can be deflected with this sort of defence. It's a tried and true technique to broadcast bigotry and slander with a wink and a nudge. I'm not saying you agree with his sentiments, but I am saying that it's not ok to say "it's just a joke". And it's not ok for Dell to let him continue to moderate their conference - even if they didn't realise what they were getting into, they should have removed him at the first sign things were not as they seemed. PS we have very different definitions of 'self-deprecating'.
- etherael 14y ago
  > PS we have very different definitions of 'self-deprecating'. It's self deprecating when you make ridiculously over the top statements about how awesome you are because it makes you look like an idiot. That old "I'm a pretty big deal around here" chestnut. It is humour, whether or not it is taken as such is a different issue, when Bill Hicks gets up on stage and repeatedly tells people in advertising to kill themselves, he's not actually serious. Some might take that seriously but he's a comedian and it's humor. If an advertising exec is heinously offended that he was just repeatedly directly told he ought to kill himself because he will never amount to anything or accomplish anything good in his life, does that mean that it wasn't humor? You may well have a point about the venue potentially being inappropriate for this kind of thing, however to actually take the content of the comedy literally and seriously and be offended by it is just completely missing the point.
  - rictic 14y ago
    The first two sentences of your comment are unrelated to the rest. The "I'm a pretty big deal" thing is just a joke. A lot of the greats have spun bits around it over the years (I think Steve Martin is among the best). That is exactly 0 defense for encouraging a room full of business people to say "Shut up bitch" or asking the (few) women in the room what business they have being there. To say that it's inappropriate doesn't begin to cover it. Have some empathy for the women in that room and those in our industry.
  - polemic 14y ago
    > "It is humour, whether or not it is taken as such is a different issue, when Bill Hicks gets up on stage and repeatedly tells people in advertising to kill themselves, he's not actually serious. Some might take that seriously but he's a comedian and it's humor." Firstly, the standard of conduct for the moderator of a corporate event is not the same as for a comedian working his routine in a club. Secondly, Bill Hicks used outrageous punch-lines to underscore a biting social commentary to his paying audience. This guy used weak jokes to push misogyny onto a captive audience. I'm pretty sure Bill Hicks would have been less than impressed with you equating the two. > "however to actually take the content of the comedy literally and seriously and be offended by it is just completely missing the point." This is more misdirection ("oh, I didn't literally mean it, lighten up - I suggest you read this: http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/ http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/). I take the intent of the message seriously, and I find it offensive. It is not missing the point, but until you recognise the directly destructive effect of telling women they shouldn't even be there, even in jest, from the pulpit, you will won't get it either.
    - etherael 14y ago
      "This guy was not funny" is a different criticism to "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary" is a different criticism to "This guy should not have been hired for this particular venue". The only thing I have a problem with is the statement "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary". And that is a large portion of the criticism here, it's missing the point.
johnpowell 14y ago
I'm pretty sure Andrew Dice Clay will not be on stage at WWDC.
- fusiongyro 14y ago
  Thank you, I've been struggling to remember his name since I heard about this! That sounds like exactly what this would be like.
olavk 14y ago
It is not an act. He is not a stand-up comedian or actor, he is a writer of self-help books about lifestyle and relationships. He uses exaggeration, hyperbole and humor to get his point across, but he do actually sincerely believe the core of his message, and his show is intended as a pep-talk to men to help them "be real men", and stand op to the women who is pushing them around.

polemic 14y ago

Here's the thing: it's not humour. It's misogyny thinly dressed as an "edgy" dig so that anyone who protests can be deflected with this sort of defence. It's a tried and true technique to broadcast bigotry and slander with a wink and a nudge. I'm not saying you agree with his sentiments, but I am saying that it's not ok to say "it's just a joke". And it's not ok for Dell to let him continue to moderate their conference - even if they didn't realise what they were getting into, they should have removed him at the first sign things were not as they seemed. PS we have very different definitions of 'self-deprecating'.

etherael 14y ago
> PS we have very different definitions of 'self-deprecating'. It's self deprecating when you make ridiculously over the top statements about how awesome you are because it makes you look like an idiot. That old "I'm a pretty big deal around here" chestnut. It is humour, whether or not it is taken as such is a different issue, when Bill Hicks gets up on stage and repeatedly tells people in advertising to kill themselves, he's not actually serious. Some might take that seriously but he's a comedian and it's humor. If an advertising exec is heinously offended that he was just repeatedly directly told he ought to kill himself because he will never amount to anything or accomplish anything good in his life, does that mean that it wasn't humor? You may well have a point about the venue potentially being inappropriate for this kind of thing, however to actually take the content of the comedy literally and seriously and be offended by it is just completely missing the point.
- rictic 14y ago
  The first two sentences of your comment are unrelated to the rest. The "I'm a pretty big deal" thing is just a joke. A lot of the greats have spun bits around it over the years (I think Steve Martin is among the best). That is exactly 0 defense for encouraging a room full of business people to say "Shut up bitch" or asking the (few) women in the room what business they have being there. To say that it's inappropriate doesn't begin to cover it. Have some empathy for the women in that room and those in our industry.
- polemic 14y ago
  > "It is humour, whether or not it is taken as such is a different issue, when Bill Hicks gets up on stage and repeatedly tells people in advertising to kill themselves, he's not actually serious. Some might take that seriously but he's a comedian and it's humor." Firstly, the standard of conduct for the moderator of a corporate event is not the same as for a comedian working his routine in a club. Secondly, Bill Hicks used outrageous punch-lines to underscore a biting social commentary to his paying audience. This guy used weak jokes to push misogyny onto a captive audience. I'm pretty sure Bill Hicks would have been less than impressed with you equating the two. > "however to actually take the content of the comedy literally and seriously and be offended by it is just completely missing the point." This is more misdirection ("oh, I didn't literally mean it, lighten up - I suggest you read this: http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/ http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/). I take the intent of the message seriously, and I find it offensive. It is not missing the point, but until you recognise the directly destructive effect of telling women they shouldn't even be there, even in jest, from the pulpit, you will won't get it either.
  - etherael 14y ago
    "This guy was not funny" is a different criticism to "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary" is a different criticism to "This guy should not have been hired for this particular venue". The only thing I have a problem with is the statement "This guy engaged in straightfaced serious misogynistic commentary". And that is a large portion of the criticism here, it's missing the point.

johnpowell 14y ago

I'm pretty sure Andrew Dice Clay will not be on stage at WWDC.

fusiongyro 14y ago
Thank you, I've been struggling to remember his name since I heard about this! That sounds like exactly what this would be like.

olavk 14y ago

It is not an act. He is not a stand-up comedian or actor, he is a writer of self-help books about lifestyle and relationships. He uses exaggeration, hyperbole and humor to get his point across, but he do actually sincerely believe the core of his message, and his show is intended as a pep-talk to men to help them "be real men", and stand op to the women who is pushing them around.