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I’m about to fly on a Max-8 airplane in the next 2 hours. I can’t help but be very nervous about the fact that we are still unclear on what exactly happened. T

• rainsford 3y ago
  > Come on. Someone somewhere at Boeing knows exactly what happened. I don't think that's true for any of the issues, or airline accidents in general. Remember ultimately we're still talking about very rare events that almost always involve a number of different factors lining up in just the right way. Even the MAX crashes were 2 out of how many thousands of MCAS equipped flights with no issues and those crashes also required other things to go wrong. It's easy to say MCAS was the obvious cause in retrospect, but it's much less clear it should have been easy to predict that outcome before any investigations were done regardless of how much inside knowledge one had. This is not at all to excuse the causes, but there is a reason crash investigations take time. Demanding immediate explanations is just asking for wrong conclusions to be reached in the name of expediency. In fact taking the time to fully investigate probably produces better accountability in the long run because it can uncover more subtle but serious problems.
  • wepple 3y ago
    Along with the very low actual incident rate, grandparent comment also suggests a certain degree of functional organizational coherence which is often wildly missing at large organizations If you ask 50 people at Boeing what happened, you may receive 50 very different answers
    • wepple 3y ago
      To clarify: I too am not excusing Boeing and think they’re likely a hot trash mess that deserves to have C-levels lose their heads with no golden parachute (or maybe their punishment should be a Boeing-produced parachute)
• jweriewj 3y ago
  Kayak.com gives you the option to sort and filter plane types! It's now one of their most popular features. Lots of people are happy to filter out 737-MAX planes and pay more for other flights.
  • xeromal 3y ago
    The problem is that your ticket does not guarantee a plane model so it can change at any moment
    • hef19898 3y ago
      But it allows Kayak to increase sales, playing of peoples fears.
      • readyman 3y ago
        [flagged]
      • hn8305823 3y ago
        Or, it allows consumers to make better informed decisions? The United app and website also show equipment type under the "details" expansion. You can also filter searches by equipment type. Yes, it can change but it's correct the vast majority of the time.
      • serf 3y ago
        god forbid Boeing sees a market reaction that is tied to consumers rather than investors when their shoddy worksmanship fails in a catastrophic manner, right?
        • willdr 3y ago
          How does it affect Boeing? I suppose in terms of service contracts and the like, but haven't the airlines bought the planes already?
          • 3y ago
• sandspar 3y ago
  I know what you mean. I had a flight recently and didn't look at the plane before I booked it. Then woke up that night, "Shit, is it a Max-8?" If it makes you feel any better, as with all commercial airplanes, even a Max-8 is far safer than driving your car to get groceries. * Just saw that your comment is 2 hours old and you said your flight is in 2 hours. Hope you're enjoying your flight! See you when you land!
  • ponector 3y ago
    737 is not a plane which can be enjoyed to fly. More like a fully booked intercity bus. Especially Ryanair is cheap on everything.
  • paledot 3y ago
    Comparing the safety of x to driving should be an official fallacy on par with Godwin's Law at this point (which in turn is no longer as firm as it once was). Driving is by far the most dangerous activity that most of us undertake on a regular basis, and is the leading cause of death in Canada among people aged 5-25, and remains in the top three until age 40 (after self-harm and drug use).[1] Switching your commute from a car to a bike or public transit will extend your lifespan, not because it's healthier, but because you're less likely to be killed by another car. 1: https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/themes/mortality-and-global-health-estimates/ghe-leading-causes-of-death https://www.who.int/data/gho/data/themes/mortality-and-globa...
    • amrocha 3y ago
      What makes it a fallacy? Statistically speaking, being ok with driving but being scared of going on an airplane, any airplane, makes absolutely no sense
      • bombcar 3y ago
        But it makes perfect sense, because in many car fatalities there were numerous things the dead person could have done better like not drink, brake sooner, not speed, etc that would have spared them. In almost all plane fatalities the only dead people who had a chance of doing something better were the pilots. The passengers were doomed from the start.
• wolverine876 3y ago
  [flagged]
  • lsllc 3y ago
    Except for the 346 people who died in two MAX-8 crashes: Lion Air Flight 610 on October 29, 2018, and Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 on March 10, 2019. FWIW, Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 was a MAX-9.
    • wolverine876 3y ago
      Statistically, we agree. :)
      • SkyPuncher 3y ago
        No, you don’t. Statistically, this airplane is drastically more likely to kill you than the average plane.
        • pclmulqdq 3y ago
          You can both be correct that almost nobody gets killed by these airplanes, but still a lot more people than the average plane.
          • 1letterunixname 3y ago
            The logic used by people who don't wear seatbelts to justify adding micromorts by habit.
      • forthac 3y ago
        Hysteresis is a bitch.
• cco 3y ago
  > I can’t help but be very nervous about the fact that we are still unclear on what exactly happened. It seems pretty clear from their initial report (which largely corroborates the whistleblower a few months ago), no? The bolts were not reinstalled after they were removed to perform a QA fix. If you mean beyond that, why weren't the bolts reinstalled, nothing too shocking there. The system of record between Boeing and their subcontractors, as well as their procedures to pass off work between companies and crews, is not sufficient to prevent lapses in workmanship like this. The good news is, all of these door plug bolts are confirmed to be properly installed ;) They just grounded them all to do that. Now...what _other_ bolts are missing, well that's anybody's guess.