5 ms·

> They hold a lease to temporarily occupy a residence that is the property of someone else. ... it's what's actually happening. That's not what's actually happ

by dalke 3y ago

> They hold a lease to temporarily occupy a residence that is the property of someone else. ... it's what's actually happening. That's not what's actually happening. In Sweden, a first-hand rental agreement is effectively for life ... actually, even longer as the tenancy be inherited by your spouse and children. The regional rent tribunal can and do override a landlord's decision to terminate the lease.

scoofy 3y ago
Yikes... it seems like you've built aristocracy into the system. I would hate to be someone accidentally not born in Stockholm.
- dalke 3y ago
  I do not think you are using the term "aristocracy" correctly. If you are talking metaphor, the "lord" in "landlord" is a far clearer sign of aristocracy. Capital can be passed down through multiple generations, as the Wallenberg family well knows - now in their fifth generation of ownership. Up until 2003 the Kingdom of Sweden had an actual aristocracy. Renters like me were never part of it.
  - scoofy 3y ago
    You are arguing semantics, I am arguing equivalence. If you have a piece of property, that is reserved for your exclusive use, at a price that is below market value, in perpetuity, that can often be passed to your children… then I think we are talking about a distinction without a difference. Perpetual and especially heritable property use (regardless of technical ownership), that exists well below market rates, is a form of landed aristocracy, just without the pomp and titles. I would say the very same thing about property owners who have perpetual and heritable property tax exemptions or perks, and I do in the case of California.
    - emmacharp 3y ago
      I'd say the baseline being argued here (being able to keep living where you live) to be considered "aristocracy" is pretty darned low.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - dalke 3y ago
      I don't think you understand what aristocracy means, I don't think you understand what the equivalency is supposed to be, and I don't think you understand what rights you have with a first hand contract in Sweden. I know you don't know what a first hand contract means, because you incorrectly asserted leases let someone "temporarily occupy a residence", when in Sweden it can be for the life of the renter. Furthermore, while that right can be extended to your wife or children, technically speaking it isn't "inherited" and it isn't simply passed on to your children like a title of nobility would be. You must have lived together for several years, making your home actually your wife/child's home too. Instead of "inherited" like I wrote, it's more like your landlord is required to recognize that additional resident as a new leaser, even if that name isn't on the original contract. And unlike aristocracy, as a renter, you have only limited abilities to remodel. You can't decide on your own to convert the living room and dining room into a great room, or to tear down and replace the bathroom. Only the landlord can make that decision. So, how this is like an aristocracy? > If you have a piece of property, that is reserved for your exclusive use That's another way I can tell you are not Swedish. In the US you can buy up 160 acres, post "no trespassing" signs, and have the government help enforce your exclusive property rights. In Sweden, that prohibition is illegal - most of your land (except that closest to your home) is not for your exclusive use. Others have the right of public access, and trying to enforce exclusivity would considered distasteful, if not immoral. > very same thing about property owners who You may not like the obligations under the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, and probably don't like various perpetuity clauses in treaties made with Native American nations, but that doesn't make it meaningful to say those property owners who have perpetual and heritable property tax exemptions are therefore members of an aristocracy.

by dalke 3y ago

scoofy 3y ago

Yikes... it seems like you've built aristocracy into the system. I would hate to be someone accidentally not born in Stockholm.

dalke 3y ago
I do not think you are using the term "aristocracy" correctly. If you are talking metaphor, the "lord" in "landlord" is a far clearer sign of aristocracy. Capital can be passed down through multiple generations, as the Wallenberg family well knows - now in their fifth generation of ownership. Up until 2003 the Kingdom of Sweden had an actual aristocracy. Renters like me were never part of it.
- scoofy 3y ago
  You are arguing semantics, I am arguing equivalence. If you have a piece of property, that is reserved for your exclusive use, at a price that is below market value, in perpetuity, that can often be passed to your children… then I think we are talking about a distinction without a difference. Perpetual and especially heritable property use (regardless of technical ownership), that exists well below market rates, is a form of landed aristocracy, just without the pomp and titles. I would say the very same thing about property owners who have perpetual and heritable property tax exemptions or perks, and I do in the case of California.
  - emmacharp 3y ago
    I'd say the baseline being argued here (being able to keep living where you live) to be considered "aristocracy" is pretty darned low.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - dalke 3y ago
    I don't think you understand what aristocracy means, I don't think you understand what the equivalency is supposed to be, and I don't think you understand what rights you have with a first hand contract in Sweden. I know you don't know what a first hand contract means, because you incorrectly asserted leases let someone "temporarily occupy a residence", when in Sweden it can be for the life of the renter. Furthermore, while that right can be extended to your wife or children, technically speaking it isn't "inherited" and it isn't simply passed on to your children like a title of nobility would be. You must have lived together for several years, making your home actually your wife/child's home too. Instead of "inherited" like I wrote, it's more like your landlord is required to recognize that additional resident as a new leaser, even if that name isn't on the original contract. And unlike aristocracy, as a renter, you have only limited abilities to remodel. You can't decide on your own to convert the living room and dining room into a great room, or to tear down and replace the bathroom. Only the landlord can make that decision. So, how this is like an aristocracy? > If you have a piece of property, that is reserved for your exclusive use That's another way I can tell you are not Swedish. In the US you can buy up 160 acres, post "no trespassing" signs, and have the government help enforce your exclusive property rights. In Sweden, that prohibition is illegal - most of your land (except that closest to your home) is not for your exclusive use. Others have the right of public access, and trying to enforce exclusivity would considered distasteful, if not immoral. > very same thing about property owners who You may not like the obligations under the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, and probably don't like various perpetuity clauses in treaties made with Native American nations, but that doesn't make it meaningful to say those property owners who have perpetual and heritable property tax exemptions are therefore members of an aristocracy.