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Their attitude is the result of being a public defender. The result of the people they are trying to defend. They are trying to do the best they can for their c

Their attitude is the result of being a public defender. The result of the people they are trying to defend. They are trying to do the best they can for their client, despite their client. They're allowed to voice their frustration, and even mock the ridiculousness of their clients actions.

lucianbr 3y ago
I wonder why the respective people lie. Maybe their life experience tells them nobody is really on their side, and telling the truth never helps. Also, I wonder if the author really does the best they can. We only have their word for it, and... well, from what I can read on the internet, the criminal justice system in the USA isn't that great, so to speak.
- account-5 3y ago
  Have you read the other story linked to in this thread, eleven magic words, by the same person? Another excellent, truthful sounding, story. It suggests they do their best with what they have to work with. Regarding the US justice system, I am thankful every time I hear about it that I am not subject to it.
- latency-guy2 3y ago
  Since you supplied your own rhetoric about these people and their lives, I'll offer another. These people lie because they know they did it but are trying to avoid the consequences since they got caught, their first instinct is to convince anyone who will talk to them, and after the first few times where that doesn't work out, they finally get the lesson to only talk to their lawyer. But, they carried forward the same behavior. Now instead of trying to convince the people before, they're now trying to convince the lawyer that they weren't even there, they were asleep even. But, they live with other people who don't share their alibi, they made a call using their phone just 15 minutes before the crime took place, or cite the classic SODDI when that all fails, like Marcel and Kyle. Sometimes people are irrational, forgetful, and however unfathomably unlikely: stupid. Sometimes people cite "experience" to lead their path through life, but really they mean "familiarity" with the situation, they really haven't learned anything. I'll use the authors own thoughts here to affirm: > No, the lying doesn't come from a lack of trust but rather a manipulation attempt. Their overriding goal is to get off the charges no matter what it takes, so they're willing to flip through and latch onto whatever narrative helps them get there. They basically want me to be a ventriloquist and use me to launder their talking points because it's more believable coming from me. Of course as I pointed out, they don't really think the plan all the way through.
tetris11 3y ago
But their client has to lie, even if they're not fully guilty of the crime -- it takes just one small offhand admission of guilt related to the crime in a seemingly private space, for the police and the prosecution to pin the entire crime on them. The system is not built on forgiveness. It will punish you fully regardless the severity of your actual crime. The fact that the author has no sympathy nor understanding of this, leads me to believe that they're not doing the job for the right reasons.
- latency-guy2 3y ago
  > The fact that the author has no sympathy nor understanding of this This is not a fact, this is you twisting the content of this post into a very badly formed representation of the author. > But their client has to lie, even if they're not fully guilty of the crime Client does not need to confess to their lawyer, they do however need to provide the lawyer with enough information, most importantly with evidence or a pathway to it, that may lead to an innocent or non-liable verdict. Client can misunderstand this position all they want, does not matter.

lucianbr 3y ago

I wonder why the respective people lie. Maybe their life experience tells them nobody is really on their side, and telling the truth never helps. Also, I wonder if the author really does the best they can. We only have their word for it, and... well, from what I can read on the internet, the criminal justice system in the USA isn't that great, so to speak.

account-5 3y ago
Have you read the other story linked to in this thread, eleven magic words, by the same person? Another excellent, truthful sounding, story. It suggests they do their best with what they have to work with. Regarding the US justice system, I am thankful every time I hear about it that I am not subject to it.
latency-guy2 3y ago
Since you supplied your own rhetoric about these people and their lives, I'll offer another. These people lie because they know they did it but are trying to avoid the consequences since they got caught, their first instinct is to convince anyone who will talk to them, and after the first few times where that doesn't work out, they finally get the lesson to only talk to their lawyer. But, they carried forward the same behavior. Now instead of trying to convince the people before, they're now trying to convince the lawyer that they weren't even there, they were asleep even. But, they live with other people who don't share their alibi, they made a call using their phone just 15 minutes before the crime took place, or cite the classic SODDI when that all fails, like Marcel and Kyle. Sometimes people are irrational, forgetful, and however unfathomably unlikely: stupid. Sometimes people cite "experience" to lead their path through life, but really they mean "familiarity" with the situation, they really haven't learned anything. I'll use the authors own thoughts here to affirm: > No, the lying doesn't come from a lack of trust but rather a manipulation attempt. Their overriding goal is to get off the charges no matter what it takes, so they're willing to flip through and latch onto whatever narrative helps them get there. They basically want me to be a ventriloquist and use me to launder their talking points because it's more believable coming from me. Of course as I pointed out, they don't really think the plan all the way through.

tetris11 3y ago

But their client has to lie, even if they're not fully guilty of the crime -- it takes just one small offhand admission of guilt related to the crime in a seemingly private space, for the police and the prosecution to pin the entire crime on them. The system is not built on forgiveness. It will punish you fully regardless the severity of your actual crime. The fact that the author has no sympathy nor understanding of this, leads me to believe that they're not doing the job for the right reasons.

latency-guy2 3y ago
> The fact that the author has no sympathy nor understanding of this This is not a fact, this is you twisting the content of this post into a very badly formed representation of the author. > But their client has to lie, even if they're not fully guilty of the crime Client does not need to confess to their lawyer, they do however need to provide the lawyer with enough information, most importantly with evidence or a pathway to it, that may lead to an innocent or non-liable verdict. Client can misunderstand this position all they want, does not matter.