4 ms·

Insurance Buys the Wheelchair, but Not the App to Run It

36 points by mdp2021 3y ago

Lucasoato 3y ago
How is it possible that individuals can take advantage of disabled people by forcing them to pay more for essential needs through deceitful tactics and yet remain untroubled? Is it necessary for society to implement legal measures to prevent such practices, or should there be an expectation of integrity and responsibility from its members?
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  From TFA > People with disabilities are being provided with new powered wheelchairs through their medical insurance, but are then discovering that unaffordable in-app purchases are needed to use their features. Just in case you wonder who these kind of people are. It seems the company that makes this wheelchair is Alber GmbH and the company that makes and sells the app to control it seems to be Invacare Lyd. UK
  - tagyro 3y ago
    They are all connected (surprise) https://www.northdata.de/Alber+GmbH,+Albstadt/Amtsgericht+Stuttgart+HRB+401393 https://www.northdata.de/Alber+GmbH,+Albstadt/Amtsgericht+St...
- vinyl7 3y ago
  There haven't been adults in the room for decades. Integrity seems like something that is completely gone from society at this point
- silverquiet 3y ago
  Is it necessary to have laws against shoplifting? Or should we simply expect people not to steal?
MrYellowP 3y ago
A fucking app for a fucking wheelchair. When will people realize that this is just a slow boil towards digital slavery? Anyone hoping for politicians/governments to protect us from this, when politicians/governments are likely one of the greatest beneficiaries of such digital slavery, is just dumb. Once everything requires an app, a press of a button ends your life.
- lifestyleguru 3y ago
  We are well pass the stage when software and smartphones made anything easier and seamless. Now they are door keepers, data harvesting vehicles, and guardians of walled gardens.
- beardyw 3y ago
  +1 for writing style. Almost poetic.
lifestyleguru 3y ago
Happy smiling people on wheelchairs need to buy happy smiling mobile app.
danpalmer 3y ago
While I do realise this happened in the EU, in general, it's protection for consumers from practices like this that is the reason I'm so grateful for the EU. Few other places are taking the strong stances on consumer rights and protection from exploitation, the US is most certainly not pushing these areas forward. There are many faults and the legislation is never perfect (anywhere, not EU specific!), but it's mostly directionally correct. I'm hoping that the DMA for example drags the rest of the world in that direction.
tap-snap-or-nap 3y ago
Clearly the issue is with the wheelchair manufacturer to not include the app features and capabilities to run it at its best capacity and efficiency when someone buys the wheelchair.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
tagyro 3y ago
A couple of notes on the manufacturer (and the insurance company) - the manufacturer and the insurer are connected: https://www.northdata.de/Alber+GmbH,+Albstadt/Amtsgericht+Stuttgart+HRB+401393 https://www.northdata.de/Alber+GmbH,+Albstadt/Amtsgericht+St... - their iOS apps link to privacy and instructions web pages that are missing (404) and, while the AppStore page mentions that no data is collected, their apps connect to googleapis(dot)com and request access to location (I'll spin up a proxy and do a MitM to gather more info) - the reviews from their employees are ...less than stelar: https://www.kununu.com/de/alber1/kommentare https://www.kununu.com/de/alber1/kommentare
- WirelessGigabit 3y ago
  FYI I have seen many apps that use certificate pinning so MITM becomes really hard. You'll need either root on an Android and make sure the app doesn't detect it. I used Frida with ADB to bypass the pin. Although a quick Google search showed me that maybe now it is easer: https://ayoubnajim.medium.com/bypass-ssl-pinning-for-flutter-apps-using-reflutter-framework-f77b858919b7 https://ayoubnajim.medium.com/bypass-ssl-pinning-for-flutter... On iOS it's even harder due to the need of a jailbroken device.
gmerc 3y ago
Hey, it’s the polish train business model. BMW tried that too and got whacked by their customers

36 points by mdp2021 3y ago

How is it possible that individuals can take advantage of disabled people by forcing them to pay more for essential needs through deceitful tactics and yet remain untroubled? Is it necessary for society to implement legal measures to prevent such practices, or should there be an expectation of integrity and responsibility from its members?

nonrandomstring 3y ago
From TFA > People with disabilities are being provided with new powered wheelchairs through their medical insurance, but are then discovering that unaffordable in-app purchases are needed to use their features. Just in case you wonder who these kind of people are. It seems the company that makes this wheelchair is Alber GmbH and the company that makes and sells the app to control it seems to be Invacare Lyd. UK
- tagyro 3y ago
  They are all connected (surprise) https://www.northdata.de/Alber+GmbH,+Albstadt/Amtsgericht+Stuttgart+HRB+401393 https://www.northdata.de/Alber+GmbH,+Albstadt/Amtsgericht+St...
vinyl7 3y ago
There haven't been adults in the room for decades. Integrity seems like something that is completely gone from society at this point
silverquiet 3y ago
Is it necessary to have laws against shoplifting? Or should we simply expect people not to steal?

MrYellowP 3y ago

A fucking app for a fucking wheelchair. When will people realize that this is just a slow boil towards digital slavery? Anyone hoping for politicians/governments to protect us from this, when politicians/governments are likely one of the greatest beneficiaries of such digital slavery, is just dumb. Once everything requires an app, a press of a button ends your life.

lifestyleguru 3y ago
We are well pass the stage when software and smartphones made anything easier and seamless. Now they are door keepers, data harvesting vehicles, and guardians of walled gardens.
beardyw 3y ago
+1 for writing style. Almost poetic.

lifestyleguru 3y ago

Happy smiling people on wheelchairs need to buy happy smiling mobile app.

danpalmer 3y ago

While I do realise this happened in the EU, in general, it's protection for consumers from practices like this that is the reason I'm so grateful for the EU. Few other places are taking the strong stances on consumer rights and protection from exploitation, the US is most certainly not pushing these areas forward. There are many faults and the legislation is never perfect (anywhere, not EU specific!), but it's mostly directionally correct. I'm hoping that the DMA for example drags the rest of the world in that direction.

tap-snap-or-nap 3y ago

Clearly the issue is with the wheelchair manufacturer to not include the app features and capabilities to run it at its best capacity and efficiency when someone buys the wheelchair.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

aaron695 3y ago

[dead]

tagyro 3y ago

A couple of notes on the manufacturer (and the insurance company) - the manufacturer and the insurer are connected: https://www.northdata.de/Alber+GmbH,+Albstadt/Amtsgericht+Stuttgart+HRB+401393 https://www.northdata.de/Alber+GmbH,+Albstadt/Amtsgericht+St... - their iOS apps link to privacy and instructions web pages that are missing (404) and, while the AppStore page mentions that no data is collected, their apps connect to googleapis(dot)com and request access to location (I'll spin up a proxy and do a MitM to gather more info) - the reviews from their employees are ...less than stelar: https://www.kununu.com/de/alber1/kommentare https://www.kununu.com/de/alber1/kommentare

WirelessGigabit 3y ago
FYI I have seen many apps that use certificate pinning so MITM becomes really hard. You'll need either root on an Android and make sure the app doesn't detect it. I used Frida with ADB to bypass the pin. Although a quick Google search showed me that maybe now it is easer: https://ayoubnajim.medium.com/bypass-ssl-pinning-for-flutter-apps-using-reflutter-framework-f77b858919b7 https://ayoubnajim.medium.com/bypass-ssl-pinning-for-flutter... On iOS it's even harder due to the need of a jailbroken device.

gmerc 3y ago

Hey, it’s the polish train business model. BMW tried that too and got whacked by their customers