6 ms·

I was sure this was gonna be about the Bitcoin guy.

by bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago

fred_is_fred 3y ago
[flagged]
senectus1 3y ago
ha! came here to say this also
anonym29 3y ago
[flagged]
- timeagain 3y ago
  On the other hand, you can actually use it to buy things which is nice
  - anonym29 3y ago
    You can do the same with bitcoin too. I don't know if you heard the news, but there are now enormous liquidity pools of billions of dollars that enable realtime conversion between BTC and USD, and they even automatically handle generating all of the tax forms for you too! This liquidity is so massive and the clearing so instantaneous that you can even get a bitcoin debit card. Open account, deposit bitcoin, spend directly in USD via debit card!
    - kortilla 3y ago
      That’s not buying things with bitcoin. That’s buying with USD and having something convert last minute. It’s no different than a brokerage card that sells stock to cover transactions.
      - anonym29 3y ago
        By that logic, nobody ever buys anything. Credit cards don't directly send funds from point A to point B either, there's complex technical and financial underpinning for the entire PCI industry. Arguing that using a BTC debit card to purchase something doesn't count as buying something with Bitcoin because the bitcoin you deposited is not sent directly to the merchant is like arguing that using a debit card from your bank to purchase something doesn't count as buying something with USD because the paper notes you deposited at your local branch aren't the same physical notes that the merchant pulls out of their bank account. It's a nonsensical semantic argument entirely detached from the important aspect, which is that you can deposit cryptocurrency and spend it wherever you can use a visa/mastercard with zero friction, as easy as using your credit card.
        namaria 3y ago
        > Credit cards don't directly send funds from point A to point B either But dollars change hands (or accounts) at the end. > using a debit card from your bank to purchase something doesn't count as buying something with USD because the paper notes you deposited at your local branch aren't the same physical notes that the merchant pulls out of their bank account. Nobody made that argument. You did and argued against it. > which is that you can deposit cryptocurrency and spend it You buy and sell cryptocurrency so you can use the currency you started with. The added two steps of buying and selling crypto are immaterial to buying what you want. You merely invested and divested in a speculative asset, you didn't use it as currency.
        kortilla 3y ago
        Credit cards are dollar valued. Your argument doesn’t make sense
  - lisper 3y ago
    These two things are not unrelated. Moderate inflation is a feature, not a bug. It encourages people not to hoard currency for too long, which keep the economy humming along. One of the reasons the Great Depression lasted as long as it did was the Fed's tight money policy. And one of the reasons that neither the Great Recession nor the covid pandemic turned into Great Depression II is that the Fed opened up the floodgates. Bitcoin is deflationary by design. That makes it a great asset but a terrible currency.
    - anonym29 3y ago
      > Moderate inflation is a feature, not a bug. Maybe from your perspective. From mine, it's as unwelcome of a "feature" as malvertising. If I can choose to opt out of this "feature", I will, and I do. Thank goodness we have the legal freedom of choice to do so, and that bitcoin really exists, rather than still just being a concept on paper. > It encourages people not to hoard currency for too long, which keep the economy humming along. Who defines 'hoard' and 'too long'? If your definitions don't match mine, why should I be forced to respect your opinions? Simple answer: I choose to ignore them, because I can. I don't recognize anyone's right to devalue the product of my labor, even if they do it "for the good of society as a whole". Society's well-being isn't my problem, my well-being is. >And one of the reasons that neither the Great Recession nor the covid pandemic turned into Great Depression II is that the Fed opened up the floodgates. You want to talk about real bubbles? Look no further than the increase in value between securities and house prices relative to average incomes. That's the fed's money spigot. It didn't save the day, it just hyperinflated the bubble.
      - JDEW 3y ago
        > I don't recognize anyone's right to devalue the product of my labor… This bit I agree with, although I would add that salary (i.e. plain cash) alone as the fruit of labour is insufficient and unfair, and amounts to wage slavery. > Society's well-being isn't my problem, my well-being is. Those are interlinked, as living in a bunker is not good for your wellbeing.
      - creato 3y ago
        > I don't recognize anyone's right to devalue the product of my labor If you were operating in a barter economy, as you seem to wish for, the value of your labor would not be guaranteed to have stable value either, and would likely be far more volatile (especially depending on what the product of your labor is... you think farmers can demand their product not decay in value over time?). You just wouldn't have a convenient boogeyman to complain about, but I guess that's better to you?
  - datatrashfire 3y ago
    and pay taxes
    - anonym29 3y ago
      "my currency is legit because that's the only currency accepted by the gang who threatens to use violence to abduct and imprison me in the middle of the the night for refusing to pay the protection (racketeering) payments they demand from me"
  - dvngnt_ 3y ago
    pretty sure you can with bitcoin too. in fact, I'm sure the person who bought pizza with it is regretting his decision
    - donw 3y ago
      Dude who made the pizza sure isn’t, though.
- jamiek88 3y ago
  Omg. This again. Repeat with me slowly. Currencies are not stores of value.
  - anonym29 3y ago
    FIAT currencies are not stores of value. Think about how great they would be if they were though! Imagine if your wealth went up over time just for holding money rather than going down over time.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - lupire 3y ago
      Why are you obsessed with holding currency? You say you don't care about society, which is fine, but why should society care about you by creating a synthetic store of value for you? If you want to store value, buy durable goods, not currency. Your commenting resemble the libertarian cat paradox: expecting the world to be set up for your benefit to do whatever you want.
      - toenail 3y ago
        > Why are you obsessed with holding currency? I don't know about parent, but I don't want to be forced to gamble on the stock market or to become a landlord simply to save the fruits of my labor. In an ideal world I could have used gold for savings, but gold already lost against fiat and people are looking for something better. > but why should society care about you by creating a synthetic store of value for you? That's the beauty of bitcoin, society doesn't have to care about it, bitcoin just does everything on its own and grows naturally.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        creato 3y ago
        I think you need to think about society as something that can only "buffer" a few months of productivity, or a few years at most. It doesn't matter what monetary system you use to value things. Prices will adjust to reflect supply and demand. It makes no sense for you to be able to save for X decades and then declare you have a right to Y decades worth of other people's productivity later in exchange. The only way to get what you want is to physically save the goods and services you want to buy in the future, but obviously that is impractical. Hence, society, markets, money, and inflation or deflation to balance the supply and demand of goods and services. Imagine a world where everyone is your age. You and everyone around you works and is productive. You're saving money. Then, you all retire around the same time. What value does that money have? You all have money, but there's nothing to buy with it. This is obviously an extreme example. But what you want is also extreme: that population and productivity are constant over time.
- YouAreADork 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - anonym29 3y ago
    That's precisely the problem - the fiat standard is a terrible rip-off.
    - YouAreADork 3y ago
      Compared to what
      - DiscourseFan 3y ago
        Compared to getting ripped off by speculators and scammers!
- bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
  Another interpretation is that the world's demand for the dollar is growing faster than they're printing it. You know, unlike Bitcoin.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

I was sure this was gonna be about the Bitcoin guy.

fred_is_fred 3y ago

[flagged]

senectus1 3y ago

ha! came here to say this also

anonym29 3y ago

[flagged]

timeagain 3y ago
On the other hand, you can actually use it to buy things which is nice
- anonym29 3y ago
  You can do the same with bitcoin too. I don't know if you heard the news, but there are now enormous liquidity pools of billions of dollars that enable realtime conversion between BTC and USD, and they even automatically handle generating all of the tax forms for you too! This liquidity is so massive and the clearing so instantaneous that you can even get a bitcoin debit card. Open account, deposit bitcoin, spend directly in USD via debit card!
  - kortilla 3y ago
    That’s not buying things with bitcoin. That’s buying with USD and having something convert last minute. It’s no different than a brokerage card that sells stock to cover transactions.
    - anonym29 3y ago
      By that logic, nobody ever buys anything. Credit cards don't directly send funds from point A to point B either, there's complex technical and financial underpinning for the entire PCI industry. Arguing that using a BTC debit card to purchase something doesn't count as buying something with Bitcoin because the bitcoin you deposited is not sent directly to the merchant is like arguing that using a debit card from your bank to purchase something doesn't count as buying something with USD because the paper notes you deposited at your local branch aren't the same physical notes that the merchant pulls out of their bank account. It's a nonsensical semantic argument entirely detached from the important aspect, which is that you can deposit cryptocurrency and spend it wherever you can use a visa/mastercard with zero friction, as easy as using your credit card.
      - namaria 3y ago
        > Credit cards don't directly send funds from point A to point B either But dollars change hands (or accounts) at the end. > using a debit card from your bank to purchase something doesn't count as buying something with USD because the paper notes you deposited at your local branch aren't the same physical notes that the merchant pulls out of their bank account. Nobody made that argument. You did and argued against it. > which is that you can deposit cryptocurrency and spend it You buy and sell cryptocurrency so you can use the currency you started with. The added two steps of buying and selling crypto are immaterial to buying what you want. You merely invested and divested in a speculative asset, you didn't use it as currency.
      - kortilla 3y ago
        Credit cards are dollar valued. Your argument doesn’t make sense
- lisper 3y ago
  These two things are not unrelated. Moderate inflation is a feature, not a bug. It encourages people not to hoard currency for too long, which keep the economy humming along. One of the reasons the Great Depression lasted as long as it did was the Fed's tight money policy. And one of the reasons that neither the Great Recession nor the covid pandemic turned into Great Depression II is that the Fed opened up the floodgates. Bitcoin is deflationary by design. That makes it a great asset but a terrible currency.
  - anonym29 3y ago
    > Moderate inflation is a feature, not a bug. Maybe from your perspective. From mine, it's as unwelcome of a "feature" as malvertising. If I can choose to opt out of this "feature", I will, and I do. Thank goodness we have the legal freedom of choice to do so, and that bitcoin really exists, rather than still just being a concept on paper. > It encourages people not to hoard currency for too long, which keep the economy humming along. Who defines 'hoard' and 'too long'? If your definitions don't match mine, why should I be forced to respect your opinions? Simple answer: I choose to ignore them, because I can. I don't recognize anyone's right to devalue the product of my labor, even if they do it "for the good of society as a whole". Society's well-being isn't my problem, my well-being is. >And one of the reasons that neither the Great Recession nor the covid pandemic turned into Great Depression II is that the Fed opened up the floodgates. You want to talk about real bubbles? Look no further than the increase in value between securities and house prices relative to average incomes. That's the fed's money spigot. It didn't save the day, it just hyperinflated the bubble.
    - JDEW 3y ago
      > I don't recognize anyone's right to devalue the product of my labor… This bit I agree with, although I would add that salary (i.e. plain cash) alone as the fruit of labour is insufficient and unfair, and amounts to wage slavery. > Society's well-being isn't my problem, my well-being is. Those are interlinked, as living in a bunker is not good for your wellbeing.
    - creato 3y ago
      > I don't recognize anyone's right to devalue the product of my labor If you were operating in a barter economy, as you seem to wish for, the value of your labor would not be guaranteed to have stable value either, and would likely be far more volatile (especially depending on what the product of your labor is... you think farmers can demand their product not decay in value over time?). You just wouldn't have a convenient boogeyman to complain about, but I guess that's better to you?
- datatrashfire 3y ago
  and pay taxes
  - anonym29 3y ago
    "my currency is legit because that's the only currency accepted by the gang who threatens to use violence to abduct and imprison me in the middle of the the night for refusing to pay the protection (racketeering) payments they demand from me"
- dvngnt_ 3y ago
  pretty sure you can with bitcoin too. in fact, I'm sure the person who bought pizza with it is regretting his decision
  - donw 3y ago
    Dude who made the pizza sure isn’t, though.
jamiek88 3y ago
Omg. This again. Repeat with me slowly. Currencies are not stores of value.
- anonym29 3y ago
  FIAT currencies are not stores of value. Think about how great they would be if they were though! Imagine if your wealth went up over time just for holding money rather than going down over time.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - lupire 3y ago
    Why are you obsessed with holding currency? You say you don't care about society, which is fine, but why should society care about you by creating a synthetic store of value for you? If you want to store value, buy durable goods, not currency. Your commenting resemble the libertarian cat paradox: expecting the world to be set up for your benefit to do whatever you want.
    - toenail 3y ago
      > Why are you obsessed with holding currency? I don't know about parent, but I don't want to be forced to gamble on the stock market or to become a landlord simply to save the fruits of my labor. In an ideal world I could have used gold for savings, but gold already lost against fiat and people are looking for something better. > but why should society care about you by creating a synthetic store of value for you? That's the beauty of bitcoin, society doesn't have to care about it, bitcoin just does everything on its own and grows naturally.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - creato 3y ago
        I think you need to think about society as something that can only "buffer" a few months of productivity, or a few years at most. It doesn't matter what monetary system you use to value things. Prices will adjust to reflect supply and demand. It makes no sense for you to be able to save for X decades and then declare you have a right to Y decades worth of other people's productivity later in exchange. The only way to get what you want is to physically save the goods and services you want to buy in the future, but obviously that is impractical. Hence, society, markets, money, and inflation or deflation to balance the supply and demand of goods and services. Imagine a world where everyone is your age. You and everyone around you works and is productive. You're saving money. Then, you all retire around the same time. What value does that money have? You all have money, but there's nothing to buy with it. This is obviously an extreme example. But what you want is also extreme: that population and productivity are constant over time.
YouAreADork 3y ago
[flagged]
- anonym29 3y ago
  That's precisely the problem - the fiat standard is a terrible rip-off.
  - YouAreADork 3y ago
    Compared to what
    - DiscourseFan 3y ago
      Compared to getting ripped off by speculators and scammers!
bdjsiqoocwk 3y ago
Another interpretation is that the world's demand for the dollar is growing faster than they're printing it. You know, unlike Bitcoin.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]