2 ms·

The thing I don't understand about this is that it seems to me that when public figures, companies, etc come out with genuine apologies, it ends up being a net

by gfodor 15y ago

The thing I don't understand about this is that it seems to me that when public figures, companies, etc come out with genuine apologies, it ends up being a net positive. They garner respect from their friends and their enemies. They get good press. They often manage to repair most of the relationships that were in question. It almost seems like that even if someone were not feeling guilty, the logical thing would be to pretend like you are and submit a real apology. I find it hard to believe that folks who are already so good at stretching the truth to their own benefit like politicans would somehow let their personal ego and pride get in the way of them making a fake "real" apology if that would benefit them the most. It seems to me that there is some underlying calculus that all these actors have made that issuing a bogus one has a better net effect that a real one. I suppose I should be thankful that if this is the case then at least we are going to be able to tell the bullshitters from the honest people, since only the honest ones will be making genuine apologies despite their potential for harm.

spindritf 15y ago
> It seems to me that there is some underlying calculus that all these actors have made that issuing a bogus one has a better net effect that a real one. This is the reason why I think non-apologies are a genuinely advantageous long-term strategy, especially for men in position of power. I don't believe it to be an entirely concious strategy resulting from some cold calculation but it seems common among leaders, from soccer team captains to presidents. Maybe some alpha/beta atavism. That is not to say that it's optimal. Throwing a sincere apology every once in a while, especially when it's sincere, may work well.
aptwebapps 15y ago
"I find it hard to believe that folks who are already so good at stretching the truth to their own benefit like politicans would somehow let their personal ego and pride get in the way of them making a fake "real" apology if that would benefit them the most." I'm sure a lot of the 'real' apologies you hear are exactly of that nature. But ego and pride don't get checked at the door when someone enters politics - far from it. Not many politicians have the discipline to be perfect PR machines at all times. Many of them seem to oscillate between politically optimized and natural states. "It seems to me that there is some underlying calculus that all these actors have made that issuing a bogus one has a better net effect that a real one." If we're talking about actual politicians rather than corporate spokespeople then there's always the possibility of a little dog-whistling going on. If you trot out the standard pro forma apology then most of the people are somewhat aggrieved and those who actually liked or agreed with your original statement or action can say that the apology is just PR and you don't really mean it. I can't see that happening much outside of actual politics. "I suppose I should be thankful that if this is the case then at least we are going to be able to tell the bullshitters from the honest people, since only the honest ones will be making genuine apologies despite their potential for harm." I don't think it's a reliable guide for the reason I stated at the top.

by gfodor 15y ago

spindritf 15y ago

> It seems to me that there is some underlying calculus that all these actors have made that issuing a bogus one has a better net effect that a real one. This is the reason why I think non-apologies are a genuinely advantageous long-term strategy, especially for men in position of power. I don't believe it to be an entirely concious strategy resulting from some cold calculation but it seems common among leaders, from soccer team captains to presidents. Maybe some alpha/beta atavism. That is not to say that it's optimal. Throwing a sincere apology every once in a while, especially when it's sincere, may work well.

aptwebapps 15y ago

"I find it hard to believe that folks who are already so good at stretching the truth to their own benefit like politicans would somehow let their personal ego and pride get in the way of them making a fake "real" apology if that would benefit them the most." I'm sure a lot of the 'real' apologies you hear are exactly of that nature. But ego and pride don't get checked at the door when someone enters politics - far from it. Not many politicians have the discipline to be perfect PR machines at all times. Many of them seem to oscillate between politically optimized and natural states. "It seems to me that there is some underlying calculus that all these actors have made that issuing a bogus one has a better net effect that a real one." If we're talking about actual politicians rather than corporate spokespeople then there's always the possibility of a little dog-whistling going on. If you trot out the standard pro forma apology then most of the people are somewhat aggrieved and those who actually liked or agreed with your original statement or action can say that the apology is just PR and you don't really mean it. I can't see that happening much outside of actual politics. "I suppose I should be thankful that if this is the case then at least we are going to be able to tell the bullshitters from the honest people, since only the honest ones will be making genuine apologies despite their potential for harm." I don't think it's a reliable guide for the reason I stated at the top.