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How does it actually work? Ketamine is a tranquilizer, right? Is it like a therapy session you do using Ketamine to turn off your stress so you can think clearl

How does it actually work? Ketamine is a tranquilizer, right? Is it like a therapy session you do using Ketamine to turn off your stress so you can think clearly? How does it have lasting effects?

fragmede 3y ago
I can't speak for GP, but when it's combined with talk therapy, the ketamine allows the body to lower its defenses so that talk therapy can more successfully be administered, and the combination of the two is what leads to long lasting effects, long after the ketamine has worn off. Ketamine let's the patient open up so talk therapy can get at the underlying issue and resolve that, in ways that talk therapy alone can't solve because the patient's flight /fight response/anxiety won't let them let their guard down to really talk about it.
- xk_id 3y ago
  Completely wrong, what you wrote is true for MDMA, not ketamine.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    why not both?
    - xk_id 3y ago
      Because it’s literally wrong and has nothing to do with how Ketamine works or with how it’s used therapeutically according to any and all sources.
      - fragmede 3y ago
        Interesting! Can you link some? I'd love to read them.
        xk_id 3y ago
        Check out the other comments in this thread, i wrote a summary and someone else wrote a personal account. If you want to read more you could search on g scholar for a recent review paper on ketamine infusion therapy.
canadiantim 3y ago
Basically how it worked was, during the session, my mom would lie down on a couch. I was there with her, therapist on a couch opposite her. She would have a blanket over her (she discovered on the trip also the amazing benefits of weighted blankets, which she now uses to great effect for helping her sleep too). Then the therapist would administer the ketamine via intramuscular injection, it would be a pre-agreed upon dosage based on feedback between you and the therapist. But then yeah, after the injection occurs, there's just some calm relaxing music playing, my mom has an eye cover on and she just lays back and rests. During the initial few minutes generally quite quiet, but she would also share a couple words here and there what she was feeling or seeing, but not really as a way to share more just that was part of her processing it. Generally the therapist and I would not say anything or interfere at all. While I do think my mom was able to kind of get a sense or feeling of / or better sense of proprotion of some psychological things going on inside of her, I suspect a lot of it is simply biochemical. Yes the talk therapy helped and the therapist was amazing, but it wasn't psychotherapy, it was very gentle and I guess helped my mom develop a better sense of proportion. A couple takeaways she had was how certain things weren't as important as others, for example.
- noman-land 3y ago
  Really interesting. Thanks for sharing.
xk_id 3y ago
Ketamine has three distinct effects which are a function of dose. At medium doses it’s a recreational psychedelic and at large doses it’s an anaesthetic. Its highest efficacy against depression is seen in the micro-dose range, before any perceptual (psychedelic) effects start. At that dose, it causes a rapid release of neurotrophic factors, which restores the function of neuronal spines. Those spines are typically damaged by chronic exposure to stress. It may not necessarily be supported by a verbal insight into your emotional difficulties, although the brief period of neuroplasticity can lead to that. There is usually complete relief from depressive symptoms within 24-48h, but it only lasts for as long as chronic exposure to stress doesn’t start again. In some patients this means that symptoms can return within a couple of weeks, unfortunately.
- noman-land 3y ago
  Fascinating, thank you.

How does it actually work? Ketamine is a tranquilizer, right? Is it like a therapy session you do using Ketamine to turn off your stress so you can think clearly? How does it have lasting effects?

fragmede 3y ago

I can't speak for GP, but when it's combined with talk therapy, the ketamine allows the body to lower its defenses so that talk therapy can more successfully be administered, and the combination of the two is what leads to long lasting effects, long after the ketamine has worn off. Ketamine let's the patient open up so talk therapy can get at the underlying issue and resolve that, in ways that talk therapy alone can't solve because the patient's flight /fight response/anxiety won't let them let their guard down to really talk about it.

xk_id 3y ago
Completely wrong, what you wrote is true for MDMA, not ketamine.
- fragmede 3y ago
  why not both?
  - xk_id 3y ago
    Because it’s literally wrong and has nothing to do with how Ketamine works or with how it’s used therapeutically according to any and all sources.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      Interesting! Can you link some? I'd love to read them.
      - xk_id 3y ago
        Check out the other comments in this thread, i wrote a summary and someone else wrote a personal account. If you want to read more you could search on g scholar for a recent review paper on ketamine infusion therapy.

canadiantim 3y ago

Basically how it worked was, during the session, my mom would lie down on a couch. I was there with her, therapist on a couch opposite her. She would have a blanket over her (she discovered on the trip also the amazing benefits of weighted blankets, which she now uses to great effect for helping her sleep too). Then the therapist would administer the ketamine via intramuscular injection, it would be a pre-agreed upon dosage based on feedback between you and the therapist. But then yeah, after the injection occurs, there's just some calm relaxing music playing, my mom has an eye cover on and she just lays back and rests. During the initial few minutes generally quite quiet, but she would also share a couple words here and there what she was feeling or seeing, but not really as a way to share more just that was part of her processing it. Generally the therapist and I would not say anything or interfere at all. While I do think my mom was able to kind of get a sense or feeling of / or better sense of proprotion of some psychological things going on inside of her, I suspect a lot of it is simply biochemical. Yes the talk therapy helped and the therapist was amazing, but it wasn't psychotherapy, it was very gentle and I guess helped my mom develop a better sense of proportion. A couple takeaways she had was how certain things weren't as important as others, for example.

noman-land 3y ago
Really interesting. Thanks for sharing.

xk_id 3y ago

Ketamine has three distinct effects which are a function of dose. At medium doses it’s a recreational psychedelic and at large doses it’s an anaesthetic. Its highest efficacy against depression is seen in the micro-dose range, before any perceptual (psychedelic) effects start. At that dose, it causes a rapid release of neurotrophic factors, which restores the function of neuronal spines. Those spines are typically damaged by chronic exposure to stress. It may not necessarily be supported by a verbal insight into your emotional difficulties, although the brief period of neuroplasticity can lead to that. There is usually complete relief from depressive symptoms within 24-48h, but it only lasts for as long as chronic exposure to stress doesn’t start again. In some patients this means that symptoms can return within a couple of weeks, unfortunately.

noman-land 3y ago
Fascinating, thank you.