4 ms·

I thought the bigger issue was the inability to escape the vehicle once it was underwater. I don’t know the extent to which (1) heavier EVs sink faster than sim

I thought the bigger issue was the inability to escape the vehicle once it was underwater. I don’t know the extent to which (1) heavier EVs sink faster than similar-class ICE vehicles, (2) EVs generally are hard to get out of because windows lack manual controls compared to ICE vehicles, or (3) Teslas are particularly lacking in escape mechanisms. Seems like the lesson is to have a window hammer and to break the window before the vehicle fills with water.

rkagerer 3y ago
My dad keeps a hammer in his Tesla to break a window in case he's trapped in without the windows working.
- sroussey 3y ago
  Will that work in a Cybertruck?
  - rkagerer 3y ago
    Can't promise, but since a steel ball just about broke through I imagine a few determined thwacks with a sledgehammer would do it. https://youtu.be/BqGf8pqCZi0 https://youtu.be/BqGf8pqCZi0
dangus 3y ago
The electronic door poppers should be illegal. They’re so clearly a safety hazard with no cost or function/ease of use upside. Other brands that aren’t Tesla don’t go to such great lengths to hide the emergency releases, too.
leohonexus 3y ago
Model X's laminated glass is near impossible to break underwater according to the article. Instead of a window hammer, in the US you could probably use a handgun to shatter the glass instead. The Cybertruck though uses "bulletproof glass", so you can't even shoot your way to escape - it'll just make a hole to make the car sink faster.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  > That is terribly difficult underwater and can be even more so when trying to bash through tempered glass or sturdier laminated glass, which most car companies use today. Those are the two types of glass that Tesla may have used in its 2020 Model X, according to company documents. Laminated glass, in particular, is lauded for its safety qualities, such as preventing a driver from being ejected during a crash; however it is nearly impossible to break underwater, according to testing done by the American Automobile Association. So it sounds like it's a mixed bag from a safety perspective — you're less likely to be ejected, but more likely to drown. It's not crazy to choose this type of design if ejections are much more likely. However, it seems like any car sold with this glass should come with a warning and perhaps an included safety tool to escape. I wonder if the AAA testing utilized window hammers or just regular brute force.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    An accessible window hammer is probably not the worst thing to carry. On the other hand, there's a bunch of safety and maintenance gear you could load in your car that most people will never need and it's not clear how much of that makes sense unless you routinely travel to remote locations outside of cell phone service.
    - gnicholas 3y ago
      Given how discombobulating it would be to drive into a lake, it would probably make sense to have a window hammer on both sides, or watch a youtube video or two about ways to break out of cars without window hammers. This would be less necessary if you're in a vehicle with mechanical door pulls, where window egress would not be as crucial.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        I assume the vast majority of cars have mechanicaal door pulls. In fact, I'm a bit surprised to learn it's not universal--seems like a big potential safety hazard. I have no idea how hard it is to open a door with a mechanical pull if you drive into a lake although I imagine I could learn online.
lambdasquirrel 3y ago
I wonder which EVs these are? My Ioniq 5 has standard door and window controls. The doors still open when the 12V is disconnected. Maybe I should be glad I have a plebeian Hyundai.
tbrownaw 3y ago
> (2) EVs generally are hard to get out of because windows lack manual controls compared to ICE vehicles My '07 ICE vehicle has non-manual windows. I thought basically everything except the very very cheapest did these days.
- petee 3y ago
  I assumed it meant computer controlled, versus a switch directly powering the window motor
- gnicholas 3y ago
  True, this should refer to door/window controls. My '07 ICE and '14 PHEV both have electric window controls but also have manual door pulls. My understanding is that it's not hard to open a door with a manual door pull after the water pressure equilibrates, assuming the door wasn't badly damaged in the crash.
- ghaff 3y ago
  I haven't had a window crank on decidely non-luxury vehicles since the early 90s at the latest.
jamesy0ung 3y ago
The doors on the Tesla have a flap below the button to open the door. If you pull it backwards, it manually opens the door. If I backed into a pond, I'd pull the flap and get out before the car sinks. EDIT: looks like this only applies to the newer models. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-emergency-open-driver-door.272863/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-emergency-op... It isn't very easy on an older model x
- lunakid 3y ago
  As soon as the car door gets (partly) underwater (i.e. not too many seconds), even a sliding door could be incredibly difficult to open if it also had to be pushed outward first. Breaking the glass (or somehow still managing to slide the window) could be more realistic options, barring lucky cases of sinking unusually slowly.

rkagerer 3y ago

My dad keeps a hammer in his Tesla to break a window in case he's trapped in without the windows working.

sroussey 3y ago
Will that work in a Cybertruck?
- rkagerer 3y ago
  Can't promise, but since a steel ball just about broke through I imagine a few determined thwacks with a sledgehammer would do it. https://youtu.be/BqGf8pqCZi0 https://youtu.be/BqGf8pqCZi0

dangus 3y ago

The electronic door poppers should be illegal. They’re so clearly a safety hazard with no cost or function/ease of use upside. Other brands that aren’t Tesla don’t go to such great lengths to hide the emergency releases, too.

leohonexus 3y ago

Model X's laminated glass is near impossible to break underwater according to the article. Instead of a window hammer, in the US you could probably use a handgun to shatter the glass instead. The Cybertruck though uses "bulletproof glass", so you can't even shoot your way to escape - it'll just make a hole to make the car sink faster.

gnicholas 3y ago
> That is terribly difficult underwater and can be even more so when trying to bash through tempered glass or sturdier laminated glass, which most car companies use today. Those are the two types of glass that Tesla may have used in its 2020 Model X, according to company documents. Laminated glass, in particular, is lauded for its safety qualities, such as preventing a driver from being ejected during a crash; however it is nearly impossible to break underwater, according to testing done by the American Automobile Association. So it sounds like it's a mixed bag from a safety perspective — you're less likely to be ejected, but more likely to drown. It's not crazy to choose this type of design if ejections are much more likely. However, it seems like any car sold with this glass should come with a warning and perhaps an included safety tool to escape. I wonder if the AAA testing utilized window hammers or just regular brute force.
- ghaff 3y ago
  An accessible window hammer is probably not the worst thing to carry. On the other hand, there's a bunch of safety and maintenance gear you could load in your car that most people will never need and it's not clear how much of that makes sense unless you routinely travel to remote locations outside of cell phone service.
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    Given how discombobulating it would be to drive into a lake, it would probably make sense to have a window hammer on both sides, or watch a youtube video or two about ways to break out of cars without window hammers. This would be less necessary if you're in a vehicle with mechanical door pulls, where window egress would not be as crucial.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      I assume the vast majority of cars have mechanicaal door pulls. In fact, I'm a bit surprised to learn it's not universal--seems like a big potential safety hazard. I have no idea how hard it is to open a door with a mechanical pull if you drive into a lake although I imagine I could learn online.

lambdasquirrel 3y ago

I wonder which EVs these are? My Ioniq 5 has standard door and window controls. The doors still open when the 12V is disconnected. Maybe I should be glad I have a plebeian Hyundai.

tbrownaw 3y ago

> (2) EVs generally are hard to get out of because windows lack manual controls compared to ICE vehicles My '07 ICE vehicle has non-manual windows. I thought basically everything except the very very cheapest did these days.

petee 3y ago
I assumed it meant computer controlled, versus a switch directly powering the window motor
gnicholas 3y ago
True, this should refer to door/window controls. My '07 ICE and '14 PHEV both have electric window controls but also have manual door pulls. My understanding is that it's not hard to open a door with a manual door pull after the water pressure equilibrates, assuming the door wasn't badly damaged in the crash.
ghaff 3y ago
I haven't had a window crank on decidely non-luxury vehicles since the early 90s at the latest.

jamesy0ung 3y ago

The doors on the Tesla have a flap below the button to open the door. If you pull it backwards, it manually opens the door. If I backed into a pond, I'd pull the flap and get out before the car sinks. EDIT: looks like this only applies to the newer models. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-emergency-open-driver-door.272863/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-emergency-op... It isn't very easy on an older model x

lunakid 3y ago
As soon as the car door gets (partly) underwater (i.e. not too many seconds), even a sliding door could be incredibly difficult to open if it also had to be pushed outward first. Breaking the glass (or somehow still managing to slide the window) could be more realistic options, barring lucky cases of sinking unusually slowly.