6 ms·

Samsung won't sell you a phone if you live in East Fairview, North Dakota

88 points by DanAtC 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
infotainment 3y ago
Another annoying fact about billing address verification is that it’s mostly unique to the US, and so if you try to use your US card on an international website that doesn’t specifically support US cards, the transaction will fail due to lacking a billing address.
- vinay427 3y ago
  This is not universally true. All of the US cards I’ve used on non-US websites, probably multiple times a week in multiple European countries for years now, have worked either without a billing address (if the website doesn’t support it) or sometimes even with an incorrect billing address, such as a non-US address for US card. Most websites in western European countries seem to support it so this usually doesn’t come up but I’ve never had a problem at least with my current cards when it does. The only time I did have a problem is when no foreign card was accepted by the payment processor, not due to verification issues.
  - zinekeller 3y ago
    I think that that both of you have good points, but missed some nuance. Most US-to-US transactions verify cards using the ZIP code (in this context, called AVS or the address verification system) and the card number. Most retailers do verify if the CVC and expiration date are also correct, but international retailers might be surprised that you can enter 12/99 and 000 and still pass due to this oddity (https://support.stripe.com/questions/charge-succeeded-despite-cvc-or-zip-check-mismatch https://support.stripe.com/questions/charge-succeeded-despit...). This is also the reason why US cards are favored by criminals (because the security in them are, to be frank, insufficient). In contrast, European retailers do use the expiry date and CVC to verify the card, and some even take this further with 3DS verification (regardless of the origin of the card). In practice, using a US card in Europe does not really cause problems except a) when the retailer only accepts locally-issued cards (or EU cards only as may be the case), b) when your bank does not support 3DS, or c) you did not set a PIN code / retrieve your PIN code from your bank.
- sss111 3y ago
  I use my american amex card almost on a weekly basis to make payments for websites in India (Amazon, Flipkart, Blinkit etc) and have had zero issues. It just defaults to use Safekey instead of billing verificaion: https://www.americanexpress.com/us/security-center/safekey/ https://www.americanexpress.com/us/security-center/safekey/ I think you do have a point though because I've had a ton of issues using my apple card on websites internationally.
- 0x38B 3y ago
  Apple Pay can be a godsend here. I’ve used it where none of my other cards would work (1). 1: for example, topping up the balance for my cellular service with a European carrier.
- Gigachad 3y ago
  Made me realise that I've been seeing Billing address and shipping address on forms my whole life and never stopped to wonder what the billing address was actually for since it doesn't do anything here.
cstross 3y ago
[ deleted ]
- op00to 3y ago
  Zip+4 removes all the ambiguity in this situation.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- infotainment 3y ago
  The article seemed pretty clear that the author feels that zip codes as a credit card verification method are broken, not the zip codes themselves.
- codingdave 3y ago
  No, it is just saying that a system designed for delivery of mail has annoying edge cases when used for billing verification.
- anakaine 3y ago
  The zip code issue is not unique, and nor are the post codes broken. Postal codes are for mail routing. They get your mail to the correct mail centre for sorting and distribution. There is no need for the postal codes or mail centres to align to rational boundaries like states, counties, localities, suburbs, or any other reasonably controlled, surveyed, and relatively consistent dataset. The real perversion here is a software developer deciding to use postal codes, which were designed for something entirely different, and which are maintained by a postal carrier, to locate and veryify addresses physical location. They've not recognised that within a post code could exist multiple towns, or towns in multiple states, etc.
  - toast0 3y ago
    > rational boundaries like states, counties, localities, suburbs, or any other reasonably controlled, surveyed, and relatively consistent dataset. Those boundaries aren't necessarily rational either. But not only does your post code not reference your political boundaries. Your postal city may not be a political city, or may not match your political city. I've lived in several places where I needed to write the city that the post office serving my house was in, if I wanted to receive mail. It's really more of the name of the post office, there are plenty of post offices in unincorporated county land, which doesn't belong to any city.
NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
Haha. Slack. Someone at work with Slack admin privileges has set the login expiration to something less than 24 hours. I think it might be 12 hours, but no one can determine it exactly. No one knows who has done this, or who has privileges to fix it. We have 2 factor, but when it redirects me to a webpage, it doesn't redirect to the page where I can just put in the password... it redirects me to some other page where I can log in "passwordlessly". I have to hunt around for the correct link. On my phone, the app doesn't log me out ever, so I use the phone app. But I'm nowhere near as responsive, and I can't really do anything but answer questions... trying to read code or look at screenshots on the tiny screen doesn't work for me. On the "app declares my phone too old" thing, for me it's restaurant apps. Chicfila, McDonald's, etc. At least 3 or 4 of them. I don't even understand why, the backend rest api just sends a signal one day that says "you're kicked the fuck out", and their UI picks up on it and blockades me. The customer hostility seems so deliberate that I don't know what to make of it.
- binarymax 3y ago
  I’ve been happy to take my business elsewhere when apps arbitrarily stop supporting my phone. It boggles the mind that the endless pursuit of feature growth leaves loyal customers in the dust.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- dr_kiszonka 3y ago
  If you are using an android phone, there are ways to allow you to use mobile Slack on a computer.
- livueta 3y ago
  Heh: my employer has done the inverse, where desktop slack sessions live forever but phone slack gets (silently!) logged out every 24h. This makes it basically useless for getting pings when afk. As a result, I'm actually quite happy about this development. Accidental work/life balance enhancements ftw
- 3y ago
boomboomsubban 3y ago
I'm sure those 73 people are furious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Fairview%2C_North_Dakota https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Fairview%2C_North_Dakota I more post that as I find it amusing the picture is of the store that exists as ND has a low tobacco tax.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- reaperducer 3y ago
  I'm sure those 73 people are furious Everyone becomes an edge case eventually. Just wait. You'll get your turn.
  - sand500 3y ago
    Reminds me of the air force discovering that no pilot was average. And that was only looking at 10 dimensions. https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/when-u-s-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages/article_e3231734-e5da-5bf5-9496-a34e52d60bd9.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/when-u-s-air-force-disc...
shagie 3y ago
From https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/53918/determining-which-us-zipcodes-map-to-more-than-one-state-or-more-than-one-city https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/53918/determining-wh... 02861 Massachusetts 02861 Rhode Island 42223 Kentucky 42223 Tennessee 59221 Montana 59221 North Dakota 63673 Illinois 63673 Missouri 71749 Arkansas 71749 Louisiana 73949 Oklahoma 73949 Texas 81137 Colorado 81137 New Mexico 84536 Arizona 84536 Utah 86044 Arizona 86044 Utah 86515 Arizona 86515 New Mexico 88063 New Mexico 88063 Texas 89439 California 89439 Nevada 97635 California 97635 Oregon
- p00dles 3y ago
  ^list of zip codes that map to more than one U.S. state
geon 3y ago
How come the us banking security is so awfully broken that people think a zip code is a useful way to validate a payment? Here in sweden, we have had 2fa for over 20 years.

88 points by DanAtC 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

infotainment 3y ago

Another annoying fact about billing address verification is that it’s mostly unique to the US, and so if you try to use your US card on an international website that doesn’t specifically support US cards, the transaction will fail due to lacking a billing address.

vinay427 3y ago
This is not universally true. All of the US cards I’ve used on non-US websites, probably multiple times a week in multiple European countries for years now, have worked either without a billing address (if the website doesn’t support it) or sometimes even with an incorrect billing address, such as a non-US address for US card. Most websites in western European countries seem to support it so this usually doesn’t come up but I’ve never had a problem at least with my current cards when it does. The only time I did have a problem is when no foreign card was accepted by the payment processor, not due to verification issues.
- zinekeller 3y ago
  I think that that both of you have good points, but missed some nuance. Most US-to-US transactions verify cards using the ZIP code (in this context, called AVS or the address verification system) and the card number. Most retailers do verify if the CVC and expiration date are also correct, but international retailers might be surprised that you can enter 12/99 and 000 and still pass due to this oddity (https://support.stripe.com/questions/charge-succeeded-despite-cvc-or-zip-check-mismatch https://support.stripe.com/questions/charge-succeeded-despit...). This is also the reason why US cards are favored by criminals (because the security in them are, to be frank, insufficient). In contrast, European retailers do use the expiry date and CVC to verify the card, and some even take this further with 3DS verification (regardless of the origin of the card). In practice, using a US card in Europe does not really cause problems except a) when the retailer only accepts locally-issued cards (or EU cards only as may be the case), b) when your bank does not support 3DS, or c) you did not set a PIN code / retrieve your PIN code from your bank.
sss111 3y ago
I use my american amex card almost on a weekly basis to make payments for websites in India (Amazon, Flipkart, Blinkit etc) and have had zero issues. It just defaults to use Safekey instead of billing verificaion: https://www.americanexpress.com/us/security-center/safekey/ https://www.americanexpress.com/us/security-center/safekey/ I think you do have a point though because I've had a ton of issues using my apple card on websites internationally.
0x38B 3y ago
Apple Pay can be a godsend here. I’ve used it where none of my other cards would work (1). 1: for example, topping up the balance for my cellular service with a European carrier.
Gigachad 3y ago
Made me realise that I've been seeing Billing address and shipping address on forms my whole life and never stopped to wonder what the billing address was actually for since it doesn't do anything here.

cstross 3y ago

[ deleted ]

op00to 3y ago
Zip+4 removes all the ambiguity in this situation.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
infotainment 3y ago
The article seemed pretty clear that the author feels that zip codes as a credit card verification method are broken, not the zip codes themselves.
codingdave 3y ago
No, it is just saying that a system designed for delivery of mail has annoying edge cases when used for billing verification.
anakaine 3y ago
The zip code issue is not unique, and nor are the post codes broken. Postal codes are for mail routing. They get your mail to the correct mail centre for sorting and distribution. There is no need for the postal codes or mail centres to align to rational boundaries like states, counties, localities, suburbs, or any other reasonably controlled, surveyed, and relatively consistent dataset. The real perversion here is a software developer deciding to use postal codes, which were designed for something entirely different, and which are maintained by a postal carrier, to locate and veryify addresses physical location. They've not recognised that within a post code could exist multiple towns, or towns in multiple states, etc.
- toast0 3y ago
  > rational boundaries like states, counties, localities, suburbs, or any other reasonably controlled, surveyed, and relatively consistent dataset. Those boundaries aren't necessarily rational either. But not only does your post code not reference your political boundaries. Your postal city may not be a political city, or may not match your political city. I've lived in several places where I needed to write the city that the post office serving my house was in, if I wanted to receive mail. It's really more of the name of the post office, there are plenty of post offices in unincorporated county land, which doesn't belong to any city.

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago

Haha. Slack. Someone at work with Slack admin privileges has set the login expiration to something less than 24 hours. I think it might be 12 hours, but no one can determine it exactly. No one knows who has done this, or who has privileges to fix it. We have 2 factor, but when it redirects me to a webpage, it doesn't redirect to the page where I can just put in the password... it redirects me to some other page where I can log in "passwordlessly". I have to hunt around for the correct link. On my phone, the app doesn't log me out ever, so I use the phone app. But I'm nowhere near as responsive, and I can't really do anything but answer questions... trying to read code or look at screenshots on the tiny screen doesn't work for me. On the "app declares my phone too old" thing, for me it's restaurant apps. Chicfila, McDonald's, etc. At least 3 or 4 of them. I don't even understand why, the backend rest api just sends a signal one day that says "you're kicked the fuck out", and their UI picks up on it and blockades me. The customer hostility seems so deliberate that I don't know what to make of it.

binarymax 3y ago
I’ve been happy to take my business elsewhere when apps arbitrarily stop supporting my phone. It boggles the mind that the endless pursuit of feature growth leaves loyal customers in the dust.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
dr_kiszonka 3y ago
If you are using an android phone, there are ways to allow you to use mobile Slack on a computer.
livueta 3y ago
Heh: my employer has done the inverse, where desktop slack sessions live forever but phone slack gets (silently!) logged out every 24h. This makes it basically useless for getting pings when afk. As a result, I'm actually quite happy about this development. Accidental work/life balance enhancements ftw
3y ago

boomboomsubban 3y ago

I'm sure those 73 people are furious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Fairview%2C_North_Dakota https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Fairview%2C_North_Dakota I more post that as I find it amusing the picture is of the store that exists as ND has a low tobacco tax.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
reaperducer 3y ago
I'm sure those 73 people are furious Everyone becomes an edge case eventually. Just wait. You'll get your turn.
- sand500 3y ago
  Reminds me of the air force discovering that no pilot was average. And that was only looking at 10 dimensions. https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/when-u-s-air-force-discovered-the-flaw-of-averages/article_e3231734-e5da-5bf5-9496-a34e52d60bd9.html https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/when-u-s-air-force-disc...

shagie 3y ago

From https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/53918/determining-which-us-zipcodes-map-to-more-than-one-state-or-more-than-one-city https://gis.stackexchange.com/questions/53918/determining-wh... 02861 Massachusetts 02861 Rhode Island 42223 Kentucky 42223 Tennessee 59221 Montana 59221 North Dakota 63673 Illinois 63673 Missouri 71749 Arkansas 71749 Louisiana 73949 Oklahoma 73949 Texas 81137 Colorado 81137 New Mexico 84536 Arizona 84536 Utah 86044 Arizona 86044 Utah 86515 Arizona 86515 New Mexico 88063 New Mexico 88063 Texas 89439 California 89439 Nevada 97635 California 97635 Oregon

p00dles 3y ago
^list of zip codes that map to more than one U.S. state

geon 3y ago

How come the us banking security is so awfully broken that people think a zip code is a useful way to validate a payment? Here in sweden, we have had 2fa for over 20 years.