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STM32 MCU family goes 64-bit with the STM32MP2x (Cortex-A35)
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoStill calling your new 64-bit chips STM32, just like your 32-bit chips, instead of STM64, feels like your branding/marketing team is asleep at the wheel or just non-existent. Even Nintendo figured that out ~30 years ago.
- tyingq 3y agoIt sounds like maybe they intend this to be the bridge to the next thing? Like this for example: "developers can use the same STM32Cube tools" So maybe they are saving STM64 for something that has more breaking changes, requires a different toolset, etc?
- zokier 3y agoWell its a mixed 32/64 bit core, and I guess they want to emphasize the backcompat with STM32MP1 more than the 64bitness.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoAMD Athlon 64 was also backwards compatible to 32 bity yet nobody was confused about that from the 64 in the name, that it would somehow only run 64 bit code.
- zamadatix 3y agoIt's more the reverse of that implication. E.g. 2 years from now a 64 bit only STM chip could well be released instead of a hybrid 32 bit and 64 bit that also is fully 32 bit compatible. That's not really a problem on backwards-compatibility focused x86 where ~20 years after AMD64 the newly launched 7950X still supports booting ~30 year old 16 bit MS-DOS (and maybe older, I haven't tried).
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- wslh 3y agoOr they can spend less in SEO using a similar name and from the same family?
- delfinom 3y agoYou have no idea the absolute shit show that semiconductor part naming is And it's because of egos of marketing departments that think they know better than engineers. I shit you not, Microchip has a over 400 page internal PowerPoint that covers decoding their schemes and they keep adding more.
- jenadine 3y agoLike win32?
- mort96 3y agoSTM32 is a very strong brand in the MCU space...
- eqvinox 3y agoIndeed it is, but maybe they should call it STM3264 :D
- Mountain_Skies 3y agoPartner up with the USB folks and call it STM32.6-Gen4.
- plumeria 3y agoOr STM32x2
- donquichotte 3y agoSTM64 subsystem for STM32
- postalrat 3y agoYou have backwards
- sspiff 3y agoBut everyone in that space would immediately understand that STM64 are 64 bit designs from the same company, no? Still seems very strange to label 64-bit processors STM32...
- Avamander 3y agoIt's like when Microchip bought Atmel they released the XTiny series. And they're not even that similar, so it has caused just a bunch of confusion. I suspect the same will happen with the STM32s that kinda are but also aren't.
- not_your_vase 3y agoWhat's even more strange is that they have no problem marketing their 8-bit MCUs as STM8
- redfern314 3y agoNXP also has an automotive line of chips called S32. In addition to only some of that line being 32-bit, it's terribly confusing to have those juxtaposed with STM32... would be nice for one of them to change their naming up a bit
- zokier 3y agoEditorialized title; its not part of the MCU family, its part of the MPU family
- topspin 3y agoIndeed, this is an embedded SOC, not an MCU. Very nice device.
- unwind 3y agoYes, my bad, thanks. Don't think I can change it now, though.
- gaudat 3y agoAnd the line between the two is blurred now with MCU running at hundreds of MHz. The STM32H7 is has more IPC than the original Raspberry Pi.
- dragontamer 3y agoDo you take external DDR RAM on an application-class ARM core? You're an MPU. There's a blurry line sometimes, but Application-class (Cortex A* cores, like A5, A35, etc. etc.) are solidly MPU. Not even close.
- eqvinox 3y ago> Do you take external DDR RAM on an application-class ARM core? You're an MPU. The actual difference IMHO is the existence of an MMU. (Which is, fdpic/linux-nommu efforts notwithstanding, the general "Linux" condition.) (Ex.: the SOPHGO SG2000 RISC-V chip comes with integrated DDR3 RAM, but is still solidly an MPU. I believe there are some ARM Cortex-A with integrated RAM too, can't think of any off the top of my head. [Ed.: nevermind, the SG2000 is dual RISC-V/ARM])
- bpye 3y agoNuvoton have some ARM9 parts with integrated DRAM for example [0]. It’s a little outdated but this blog post is a pretty good overview of the options available [1]. [0] - https://www.nuvoton.com/products/microprocessors/arm9-mpus/ https://www.nuvoton.com/products/microprocessors/arm9-mpus/ [1] - https://jaycarlson.net/embedded-linux/ https://jaycarlson.net/embedded-linux/
- zokier 3y agoPrevious discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37247763 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37247763
- the__alchemist 3y agoDoes anyone know why some of the balls in the (render pics) are missing around the edges? Unrelated: Would this be suitable for a CV system eg in robotics? Eg do the realtime stuff on the Cortex-M, and run a linux + OpenCV/OpenVINO etc on the Cortex-A?
- adrian_b 3y agoThis is how it is intended to be used (real-time tasks on the Cortex-M, Linux on the Cortex-A). Nevertheless its 64-bit core is optimized for low-power, so it also has low performance. If the applications intended to run under Linux are more demanding, one may need at least some SoC with Cortex-A55 cores (e.g. from NXP), if not one with medium-size cores, like the RK3588 (with quadruple Cortex-A76 + GPU + NPU + some Cortex-M) or one of the overpriced SoCs from Mediatek, Qualcomm or NVIDIA (these latter 3 have worse price/performance than Intel/AMD CPUs). Unless a price under $100 is a condition, the easiest way to make a CV system for robotics is by using one of the very small computers that are available with Intel N100 CPUs (there are models much smaller than a NUC, either at a Pico-ITX size or even smaller, while prices are under $200).
- Zeetah 3y agoThe balls are missing to enable making connections to inner balls in a board with fewer layers. The outer balls take up space and so block the traces from inner balls. By strategically removing some of the outer balls, you create channels that can be used for routing taxes from the inner balls.
- the__alchemist 3y agoThat makes sense! I wish I saw this on their MCU line... (Although you can thread a tiny trace between the balls depending on manufacturer, I don't like it!
- gaudat 3y agoIt all comes down to cost. These BGA chips have pins under the device unlike older packages like QFP or DIP. The pattern of missing pins is designed so it a fewer signal layers to bring out all the sigal connections in a typical PCB process. Devices with full grids would need more layers or tighter tolerances. The appeal of STM32MP1 is you can put DDR momery with the chip on a 4 layer board. ST even provides the layout.
- demondemidi 3y ago10 year lifetime at -40 to 125C Tj is remarkable. Modern desktop CPUs are klutzes by comparison.
- eqvinox 3y agoFWIW, at least 10 years (maybe at 85°C) is expected of any µP/µC worth its salt outside consumer use. It's just that consumers have accepted somewhat junk-y electronics as a fact of life. (Ok, the improvement cycle is also still quite rapid, meaning a consumer might want to update after 3~5 years anyway.) Considering warranty periods on some goods, you also really don't want to build stuff with lower rated chips—it'll come back to bite you. Imagine having to pay a professional to swap out the controller board on a smart heating system… people might have accepted swapping out their TV every few years, but for a stove or fridge we're not there yet (and honestly I hope we never get there.) Leaving the consumer space, it's just expected. If your CNC mill has an x86 control PC, it's a ruggedized industrial build, and those use embedded CPUs with better ratings. Cars are off on a different planet for regulatory reasons, same for aviation or military use.
- demondemidi 3y agoI worked on validation at Intel and the primary source of faults over time is electromigration in the lower metal layers and our failure rates went out to 7 years (and there are multiple scenario %-failure curves in that window), and we dialed that back during the war with Athlon. Other sources of error are bit failures in sense amps in low-voltage SRAM circuits. Hitting reliability above 105 C Tj was really really really expensive for the big die sizes of Intel CPUs in the 2000s. Claiming the crown for low-yield high-performance CPUs required relaxing a lot of failure rates. However, intel was so paranoid to begin with, it didn't lead to massive failures but remember that industrial consumers have much more rigid requirements around reliability than gamers.
- kragen 3y agothanks, this is really valuable information. i didn't realize electromigration had gotten so bad
- dragontamer 3y agoSTM32MPxx are MPU (microprocessor) families, taking more standard DDR* class RAM and running Linux. MCUs are all well under 10MB of onboard RAM (often single-digit kbytes, but bigger MCUs exist). And if they support external RAM, its MCU-protocols like SPI-RAM (which rarely goes much further than 1MB)
- duskwuff 3y ago> And if they support external RAM, its MCU-protocols like SPI-RAM (which rarely goes much further than 1MB) That's not generally true. A lot of higher-end STM32 MCUs have support for external SRAM/SDRAM -- I have a STM32H7 board on my desk with 32 MB, for instance. (Support for memory-mapped SPI/QSPI/OSPI RAM is actually less common.) You're correct that internal SRAM is typically no more than 1-2 MB on even the largest parts, though.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dmitrygr 3y agoIt is worth noting that the A35 is a rather weak in-order core. Cortex-M7 has a much better IPC, for example.