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> American parents really get up in arms about this stuff, which is something I’ve learned firsthand over the past few years. (I’ve also learned to recognize wh

> American parents really get up in arms about this stuff, which is something I’ve learned firsthand over the past few years. (I’ve also learned to recognize when they don’t want to hear my counterargument.) But the fact of the matter is, babies throughout history have slept—and in many places today, still sleep—in the same “bed” as their parents. Various positions of sleeping (back, side, stomach) are also common across cultures and time. At the risk of being one of those parents who don't want to hear a counterargument… Sure, this is all true, but the author's argument is unsatisfying. We've done lots of things throughout history that have since been proven unsafe. Putting babies on their back to sleep is correlated with a 50% reduction in SIDS deaths. I don't think you can handwave that away with "we used to do it differently" or "non-American cultures do it differently."

wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
Sid deaths are 1 in 10.000; there is some indication that not sleeping on the stomach make it 1 to 20.000. But the numbers are too low, and classifying and reporting true causes is hard
laborcontract 3y ago
So much to unpack here but as a parent that just got my kid over the worried about sids stage, it’s easily the most overrated worry once you unpack things and figure out what’s generally going on. Most important piece of the discussion is that most parents conflate suffocation with SIDS. They are totally different things. Suffocation risks can be mitigated. Avoid sleeping with little ones on the couch, don’t put too many blankets in a crib, etc etc. Actual SIDS is a real thing, and it’s not certain that SIDS risks can actually be mitigated. Theres a genetic factor, birth related factors, and smoking factors. The SIDS survey is wholly unsatisfying because it doesn’t control for stuff like loose blankets in cribs.
- dustincoates 3y ago
  So my critique here isn't whether back sleeping is necessary or co-sleeping should be avoided. I have my own thoughts on those, but I'm also aware that you have to balance risks. My critique is that the appeal to tradition and the appeal to, I don't know what to call it, "not American" by someone who isn't trained in this area is not the right approach for making that calculation.
  - laborcontract 3y ago
    That's fair; such appeals lack rigor. All I can say is that the early months became so much easier after developing a rational framework for thinking about SIDS and learning to not worry about it at all, after controlling for suffocation risks.
Sleepthrowaway 3y ago
We co-sleep with the babies/kids, so caveats apply. If you do a deeper dive into the research literature, the finding ends up being that it's fine to co-sleep if you are completely sober. No nyquil, no pot, no booze, no caffeine, no nicotine, nothing. If you put those in you and then the baby in the bed, then you start getting injuries and deaths. So, obviously, the recommendation then has to be that you do not co-sleep. Because people are real dumb, and even more so when you've only had 4 hours of sleep in the last month. I've had other parents tell me that pot isn't a drug (its a medicine!) and really mean it. That since a MD prescribed them ambien, they can take it while breastfeeding and co-sleeping. The kids of those people are the ones the 'no co-sleeping' recommendation is meant for. If you're totally 100% sober, it's fine for mom and baby to co-sleep.
- senordevnyc 3y ago
  For me it just comes down to it not being remotely worth the risk. I'm a father and I did half the midnight feedings and diaper changes (plus all of them when mother was traveling for work), and cosleeping would have definitely been more convenient. And maybe what you're saying is true, but if wrong (or just something else goes wrong), it's an unthinkable tragedy that would cost me my child. And that's a tragedy that many parents (and marriages) don't come back from. I'll just be a little more tired and inconvenienced for a year, it's OK.

wouldbecouldbe 3y ago

Sid deaths are 1 in 10.000; there is some indication that not sleeping on the stomach make it 1 to 20.000. But the numbers are too low, and classifying and reporting true causes is hard

laborcontract 3y ago

So much to unpack here but as a parent that just got my kid over the worried about sids stage, it’s easily the most overrated worry once you unpack things and figure out what’s generally going on. Most important piece of the discussion is that most parents conflate suffocation with SIDS. They are totally different things. Suffocation risks can be mitigated. Avoid sleeping with little ones on the couch, don’t put too many blankets in a crib, etc etc. Actual SIDS is a real thing, and it’s not certain that SIDS risks can actually be mitigated. Theres a genetic factor, birth related factors, and smoking factors. The SIDS survey is wholly unsatisfying because it doesn’t control for stuff like loose blankets in cribs.

dustincoates 3y ago
So my critique here isn't whether back sleeping is necessary or co-sleeping should be avoided. I have my own thoughts on those, but I'm also aware that you have to balance risks. My critique is that the appeal to tradition and the appeal to, I don't know what to call it, "not American" by someone who isn't trained in this area is not the right approach for making that calculation.
- laborcontract 3y ago
  That's fair; such appeals lack rigor. All I can say is that the early months became so much easier after developing a rational framework for thinking about SIDS and learning to not worry about it at all, after controlling for suffocation risks.

Sleepthrowaway 3y ago

We co-sleep with the babies/kids, so caveats apply. If you do a deeper dive into the research literature, the finding ends up being that it's fine to co-sleep if you are completely sober. No nyquil, no pot, no booze, no caffeine, no nicotine, nothing. If you put those in you and then the baby in the bed, then you start getting injuries and deaths. So, obviously, the recommendation then has to be that you do not co-sleep. Because people are real dumb, and even more so when you've only had 4 hours of sleep in the last month. I've had other parents tell me that pot isn't a drug (its a medicine!) and really mean it. That since a MD prescribed them ambien, they can take it while breastfeeding and co-sleeping. The kids of those people are the ones the 'no co-sleeping' recommendation is meant for. If you're totally 100% sober, it's fine for mom and baby to co-sleep.

senordevnyc 3y ago
For me it just comes down to it not being remotely worth the risk. I'm a father and I did half the midnight feedings and diaper changes (plus all of them when mother was traveling for work), and cosleeping would have definitely been more convenient. And maybe what you're saying is true, but if wrong (or just something else goes wrong), it's an unthinkable tragedy that would cost me my child. And that's a tragedy that many parents (and marriages) don't come back from. I'll just be a little more tired and inconvenienced for a year, it's OK.