6 ms·

Sycamore Gap: New life springs from rescued tree

81 points by sohkamyung 3y ago

canoebuilder 3y ago
[flagged]
- iam-TJ 3y ago
  It's a Whydunnit, not a Whodunnit - the people that cut the tree down are known.
  - canoebuilder 3y ago
    Who are they?
    - kyleee 3y ago
      Wayward teens
      - canoebuilder 3y ago
        What is your source of info here? Can you be more specific? Who are they?
    - iam-TJ 3y ago
      Investigation is still ongoing; originally two people were arrested but now face "no further action"; Two further people have been arrested. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-67284492 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-67284492
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
OliveMate 3y ago
It's nice to know that there's a group of dedicated people in the National Trust who focus on preserving heritage trees. If coppicing (letting the stump grow shoots back out) doesn't work, hopefully these cuttings are able to do it instead.
card_zero 3y ago
It was a nice tree, but preserving genetic material from famous trees is just silly. I don't think anybody would be able to pick out a clone of the Sycamore Gap tree out from an identity parade of other sycamore saplings, because it's just a sycamore, and likewise Isaac Newton's apple tree is just an apple tree, of the Flower of Kent variety - preserving this one makes more sense, because it's not a popular variety, being "mealy, and sub-acid, and of generally poor quality by today's standards". But the 2,500 year old yew is just a yew, and is very far from being the oldest in the country, and its descendants and clones, of course, aren't old at all, so they kind of lack the whole point of the original tree. There's a sort of superstition like sympathetic magic going on here, where the powers of objects literally rub off on things they come into contact with. It's culturally very weird, but so is the idea of "a famous tree" in the first place. Maybe turning its DNA into a celebrity as well makes a sort of crazy sense.
- Engineering-MD 3y ago
  I agree objectively there is nothing special about the tree or its clones/seedlings, or the other trees mentioned. However, I disagree it’s a silly sympathetic magic. It’s symbolism to help people deal with negative events and maintain a symbolic link. Realistically huge amounts of humanity are only symbolic links. Objectively who cares if someone is buried here, or this bit of metal is the crown of the royal family? But from a symbolic point of view they are important. If grafting/seedings weren’t available, they would have just planted another tree, but using the same DNA or the offspring has greater meaning and helps reinforce the narrative.
  - card_zero 3y ago
    Yeah, although this stuff varies from culture to culture. Here's Douglas Adams visiting a 14th century temple in Kyoto: >I was told it hadn’t weathered well at all, and had in fact been burned to the ground twice in this century. >“So it isn’t the original building?” I had asked my Japanese guide. “But yes, of course it is,” he insisted, rather surprised at my question. >“But it’s been burned down?” >“Yes.” >“Twice.” >“Many times.” >“And rebuilt.” >“Of course. It is an important and historic building.” >“With completely new materials.” >“But of course. It was burned down.” >“So how can it be the same building?” >“It is always the same building.” >I had to admit to myself that this was in fact a perfectly rational point of view, it merely started from an unexpected premise. The idea of the building, the intention of it, its design, are all immutable and are the essence of the building. The intention of the original builders is what survives. The wood of which the design is constructed decays and is replaced when necessary. To be overly concerned with the original materials, which are merely sentimental souvenirs of the past, is to fail to see the living building itself. >I couldn’t feel entirely comfortable with this view, because it fought against my basic Western assumptions, but I did see the point.
darkerside 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
joe8756438 3y ago
I’m sure there’s a good reason, but couldn’t they root directly from the scion? Or is there something particular about the sycamore that resists that type of propagation? My experience with sycamores on the mid atlantic US they are really tough trees. They sprout in a crushed stone parking area near my house, i can dig them up and replant them with high success rate.
joenot443 3y ago
So two vandals in their 30s were arrested and remain on bail. In the UK, will we ever hear anything more about them? Do they remain anonymous even after they've been charged? It's surprising to me this is being treated so lightly. A couple weeks ago when a Florida teenager was charged with a felony after doing burnouts on a crosswalk, UK papers seemed pretty happy to publish his face and name the very next morning [1]. I guess different rules when the crime occurs in a different country? Seems funny to me. [1]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13080377/Florida-teen-vandalizing-gay-pride-crosswalk.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13080377/Florida-te...
- Karellen 3y ago
  > I guess different rules when the crime occurs in a different country? Yes, that's how laws work? If the police in Florida release the names of people mere charged with a crime, but the police in the UK don't - in case, you know, they have the wrong person - then the reporting will be different?
  - joenot443 3y ago
    Yes, that's certainly how laws work - what a very astute answer, Karellan. What I'm observing is that the spirit of the law, as it's being enforced here, is what's amusing. Is a suspect's identity deserving of state mandated protection? Only if they're British, I guess.
    - pintxo 3y ago
      It seams you are assuming that the law in UK forbids publishing a suspects identity. But maybe the law is written in a way that publishing someone’s identity is fine if it’s been made available by Police (in whatever country), in that case there are no double standards at play, just different situations. Mind you, I have zero knowledge of the actual laws at play here.
- ajb 3y ago
  Names are normally released when someone is prosecuted, unless they are a minor. It doesn't always seem to happen at the charging stage, which is purely a police decision, but once it reaches a court, it is public.
v3ss0n 3y ago
Why this News need to be top of HN?
- ulysses1244 3y ago
  It’s the intersection of science, culture, and history with an interesting criminal story. Seems perfect in some ways.
barrysteve 3y ago
In 1995 Pocohantas sings Colors of the Wind, including the line "how high can the Sycamore grow, if you chop it down, you'll never know". Nevermind the tree was 500yrs old. There's a whole generation of 90s kids who valued growth and longevity. The tree was a historical symbol for multiple generations of Brits too. It's a terrible loss to cut it down and we didn't do enough to protect it.
- nly 3y ago
  It was only about 150 years old, and it was planted by the landowner. There are Oaks in my parents garden older than this, but that's not really the point
- georgeburdell 3y ago
  There are many hypothetical crimes that don’t happen because there’s some base level of societal trust. Think of the archetypal rural community where no one locks their doors at night. The UK, like many countries, is backsliding into a low trust society where previously unthinkable criminal acts are happening, requiring a re-thinking of its guarantees of security.

81 points by sohkamyung 3y ago

canoebuilder 3y ago

[flagged]

iam-TJ 3y ago
It's a Whydunnit, not a Whodunnit - the people that cut the tree down are known.
- canoebuilder 3y ago
  Who are they?
  - kyleee 3y ago
    Wayward teens
    - canoebuilder 3y ago
      What is your source of info here? Can you be more specific? Who are they?
  - iam-TJ 3y ago
    Investigation is still ongoing; originally two people were arrested but now face "no further action"; Two further people have been arrested. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-67284492 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-67284492
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

OliveMate 3y ago

It's nice to know that there's a group of dedicated people in the National Trust who focus on preserving heritage trees. If coppicing (letting the stump grow shoots back out) doesn't work, hopefully these cuttings are able to do it instead.

card_zero 3y ago

It was a nice tree, but preserving genetic material from famous trees is just silly. I don't think anybody would be able to pick out a clone of the Sycamore Gap tree out from an identity parade of other sycamore saplings, because it's just a sycamore, and likewise Isaac Newton's apple tree is just an apple tree, of the Flower of Kent variety - preserving this one makes more sense, because it's not a popular variety, being "mealy, and sub-acid, and of generally poor quality by today's standards". But the 2,500 year old yew is just a yew, and is very far from being the oldest in the country, and its descendants and clones, of course, aren't old at all, so they kind of lack the whole point of the original tree. There's a sort of superstition like sympathetic magic going on here, where the powers of objects literally rub off on things they come into contact with. It's culturally very weird, but so is the idea of "a famous tree" in the first place. Maybe turning its DNA into a celebrity as well makes a sort of crazy sense.

Engineering-MD 3y ago
I agree objectively there is nothing special about the tree or its clones/seedlings, or the other trees mentioned. However, I disagree it’s a silly sympathetic magic. It’s symbolism to help people deal with negative events and maintain a symbolic link. Realistically huge amounts of humanity are only symbolic links. Objectively who cares if someone is buried here, or this bit of metal is the crown of the royal family? But from a symbolic point of view they are important. If grafting/seedings weren’t available, they would have just planted another tree, but using the same DNA or the offspring has greater meaning and helps reinforce the narrative.
- card_zero 3y ago
  Yeah, although this stuff varies from culture to culture. Here's Douglas Adams visiting a 14th century temple in Kyoto: >I was told it hadn’t weathered well at all, and had in fact been burned to the ground twice in this century. >“So it isn’t the original building?” I had asked my Japanese guide. “But yes, of course it is,” he insisted, rather surprised at my question. >“But it’s been burned down?” >“Yes.” >“Twice.” >“Many times.” >“And rebuilt.” >“Of course. It is an important and historic building.” >“With completely new materials.” >“But of course. It was burned down.” >“So how can it be the same building?” >“It is always the same building.” >I had to admit to myself that this was in fact a perfectly rational point of view, it merely started from an unexpected premise. The idea of the building, the intention of it, its design, are all immutable and are the essence of the building. The intention of the original builders is what survives. The wood of which the design is constructed decays and is replaced when necessary. To be overly concerned with the original materials, which are merely sentimental souvenirs of the past, is to fail to see the living building itself. >I couldn’t feel entirely comfortable with this view, because it fought against my basic Western assumptions, but I did see the point.

darkerside 3y ago

[flagged]

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

joe8756438 3y ago

I’m sure there’s a good reason, but couldn’t they root directly from the scion? Or is there something particular about the sycamore that resists that type of propagation? My experience with sycamores on the mid atlantic US they are really tough trees. They sprout in a crushed stone parking area near my house, i can dig them up and replant them with high success rate.

joenot443 3y ago

So two vandals in their 30s were arrested and remain on bail. In the UK, will we ever hear anything more about them? Do they remain anonymous even after they've been charged? It's surprising to me this is being treated so lightly. A couple weeks ago when a Florida teenager was charged with a felony after doing burnouts on a crosswalk, UK papers seemed pretty happy to publish his face and name the very next morning [1]. I guess different rules when the crime occurs in a different country? Seems funny to me. [1]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13080377/Florida-teen-vandalizing-gay-pride-crosswalk.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13080377/Florida-te...

Karellen 3y ago
> I guess different rules when the crime occurs in a different country? Yes, that's how laws work? If the police in Florida release the names of people mere charged with a crime, but the police in the UK don't - in case, you know, they have the wrong person - then the reporting will be different?
- joenot443 3y ago
  Yes, that's certainly how laws work - what a very astute answer, Karellan. What I'm observing is that the spirit of the law, as it's being enforced here, is what's amusing. Is a suspect's identity deserving of state mandated protection? Only if they're British, I guess.
  - pintxo 3y ago
    It seams you are assuming that the law in UK forbids publishing a suspects identity. But maybe the law is written in a way that publishing someone’s identity is fine if it’s been made available by Police (in whatever country), in that case there are no double standards at play, just different situations. Mind you, I have zero knowledge of the actual laws at play here.
ajb 3y ago
Names are normally released when someone is prosecuted, unless they are a minor. It doesn't always seem to happen at the charging stage, which is purely a police decision, but once it reaches a court, it is public.

v3ss0n 3y ago

Why this News need to be top of HN?

ulysses1244 3y ago
It’s the intersection of science, culture, and history with an interesting criminal story. Seems perfect in some ways.

barrysteve 3y ago

In 1995 Pocohantas sings Colors of the Wind, including the line "how high can the Sycamore grow, if you chop it down, you'll never know". Nevermind the tree was 500yrs old. There's a whole generation of 90s kids who valued growth and longevity. The tree was a historical symbol for multiple generations of Brits too. It's a terrible loss to cut it down and we didn't do enough to protect it.

nly 3y ago
It was only about 150 years old, and it was planted by the landowner. There are Oaks in my parents garden older than this, but that's not really the point
georgeburdell 3y ago
There are many hypothetical crimes that don’t happen because there’s some base level of societal trust. Think of the archetypal rural community where no one locks their doors at night. The UK, like many countries, is backsliding into a low trust society where previously unthinkable criminal acts are happening, requiring a re-thinking of its guarantees of security.