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For people who care about the future of our biosphere, what would be the most logical next step? Reduce or stop eating factory farmed meat / industrial fishing

For people who care about the future of our biosphere, what would be the most logical next step? Reduce or stop eating factory farmed meat / industrial fishing products?

digging 3y ago
That's a personal step which is good to take for credibility, but the only two effective things to do are: 1. Violence against corrupt capital-owners (I'm not advocating this, for legal reasons, just saying it could be effective) 2. Organizing your fellow malcontents (that is: people who give a quarter of a fuck about human dignity), which is hard work but can really pay off systematically. Note though that you may still end up with some of the same legal risks as #1.
- jajko 3y ago
  Yeah eco-terrorism will really persuade masses about your cause, what a non-smart advice to be polite. I don't claim I have a solution, but above is not one
  - digging 3y ago
    I didn't say the goal was to persuade masses. That's what organizing does.
- LinXitoW 3y ago
  Hmm, if there was a movement that organized around ending animal ag, and they called for individuals to stop consuming animals, would that not count as working towards systematic change? Conversely, all your examples also require individuals to make individual choices. Arguably, no systemic change has ever happened without individuals choosing to act.
  - digging 3y ago
    > Hmm, if there was a movement that organized around ending animal ag, and they called for individuals to stop consuming animals, would that not count as working towards systematic change? Not really. Not if it's just a propaganda/awareness campaign. It would only matter if anti-industrial agriculturalists were organizing, defined as building resilient social-political structures which could change policy at increasingly large scales. > Arguably, no systemic change has ever happened without individuals choosing to act. I don't even think that's arguable except in the case of natural disasters bringing down systems entirely. The individual choices that matter, for the disenfranchised with revolutionary ideas, are the choices and actions that build organizational power. And building power is extremely grueling work when money is neither the goal nor vehicle, so that's why we see so little of it. That's why I'm not currently doing it, for the time being.
- panick21_ 3y ago
  Yeah because the revolutionairies have proven that enviornmental protection is their priniple aim after a revolution. What actually works is political organisation that proposes solutions that actually work.
  - digging 3y ago
    > Yeah because the revolutionairies have proven that enviornmental protection is their priniple aim after a revolution. What revolutionaries are you referring to? It sounds like you're just making shit up and loosely attaching it to what I said. > What actually works is political organisation that proposes solutions that actually work. Like I already said in the last part of my comment, though I'm not sure you read any parts of it very closely.

For people who care about the future of our biosphere, what would be the most logical next step? Reduce or stop eating factory farmed meat / industrial fishing products?

digging 3y ago

That's a personal step which is good to take for credibility, but the only two effective things to do are: 1. Violence against corrupt capital-owners (I'm not advocating this, for legal reasons, just saying it could be effective) 2. Organizing your fellow malcontents (that is: people who give a quarter of a fuck about human dignity), which is hard work but can really pay off systematically. Note though that you may still end up with some of the same legal risks as #1.

jajko 3y ago
Yeah eco-terrorism will really persuade masses about your cause, what a non-smart advice to be polite. I don't claim I have a solution, but above is not one
- digging 3y ago
  I didn't say the goal was to persuade masses. That's what organizing does.
LinXitoW 3y ago
Hmm, if there was a movement that organized around ending animal ag, and they called for individuals to stop consuming animals, would that not count as working towards systematic change? Conversely, all your examples also require individuals to make individual choices. Arguably, no systemic change has ever happened without individuals choosing to act.
- digging 3y ago
  > Hmm, if there was a movement that organized around ending animal ag, and they called for individuals to stop consuming animals, would that not count as working towards systematic change? Not really. Not if it's just a propaganda/awareness campaign. It would only matter if anti-industrial agriculturalists were organizing, defined as building resilient social-political structures which could change policy at increasingly large scales. > Arguably, no systemic change has ever happened without individuals choosing to act. I don't even think that's arguable except in the case of natural disasters bringing down systems entirely. The individual choices that matter, for the disenfranchised with revolutionary ideas, are the choices and actions that build organizational power. And building power is extremely grueling work when money is neither the goal nor vehicle, so that's why we see so little of it. That's why I'm not currently doing it, for the time being.
panick21_ 3y ago
Yeah because the revolutionairies have proven that enviornmental protection is their priniple aim after a revolution. What actually works is political organisation that proposes solutions that actually work.
- digging 3y ago
  > Yeah because the revolutionairies have proven that enviornmental protection is their priniple aim after a revolution. What revolutionaries are you referring to? It sounds like you're just making shit up and loosely attaching it to what I said. > What actually works is political organisation that proposes solutions that actually work. Like I already said in the last part of my comment, though I'm not sure you read any parts of it very closely.