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The trouble is that "reasonable expectations" are set by those in power. Slave overs set "reasonable expectations" for slaves, feudal lords set "reasonable expe

The trouble is that "reasonable expectations" are set by those in power. Slave overs set "reasonable expectations" for slaves, feudal lords set "reasonable expectations" for peasants. In such a world "reasonable expectations" by their nature foster a continuation of the existing power structures. Behavior that challenges "reasonable expectations" does so precisely because of the belief that the continuation of the status quo as perpetuated by those in power has become untenable. Many people "reasonably expect" nations and companies to not be complicit in genocide, where is their recourse?

duxup 3y ago
I feel like the expectations here are reasonable. I wouldn't want another employee interrupting my meeting like that either. As for the rest of your "salve owner" commentary I think that's an absurd comparison.
- PheonixPharts 3y ago
  Are you being deliberately obtuse? Surely you recognized there is a context to the "no interrupting meetings" guideline. The protester felt that meeting was playing part in the support and facilitation genocide, I think that's adequate grounds to interrupt a meeting. And what do you find absurd about the "slave owner" comparison? I'm not arguing that modern day employment is slavery or anything of the sort, just pointing out that the terms of "reasonable expectations" are always defined by those in power, and not once in history has working within "reasonable expectations" caused a shift in those power dynamics.
  - duxup 3y ago
    Obviously his behavior wasn't simply interrupting a meeting.
  - catlikesshrimp 3y ago
    >"Are you being deliberately obtuse?" This is getting your post more downvotes than your opinion is. It hurts your opinion.
deleted 3y ago
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smsm42 3y ago
Nobody owes you or anybody to validate your beliefs. Employee, however, owes the company certain standards of behavior. If you violate them, you get fired, and can continue holding your beliefs outside of employment.
deterministic 3y ago
There are none. Power is the currency of the world. I don’t personally like it. However I want to see the world as it is and not live in a make believe fantasy bubble. Laws and rules are created and enforced by people in power. They are designed to force the less powerful to behaving in a certain way. It has nothing to do with “morals” or “justice”. You might happen to agree morally with certain laws or rules and not with others. However that doesn’t matter unless you are powerful enough to change those laws. In the case of companies, the people in power can make whatever rules they want. Unless more powerful people (the government/large groups of costumers/powerful unions) threaten the company with repercussions if those rules aren’t changed. Imagine (for example) a group of Vegans becoming powerful enough to outlaw eating meat. With heavy penalties (including death by execution) for anybody buying or selling meat for consumption. That is absolutely something that could happen. With the most extreme Vegans feeling morally justified in enforcing those rules. The only thing stopping this from happening is their lack of power. Another example is religion. Do as your told or you will go to hell. If you truly believe there is a hell then this threat is the most extreme usage of power you can possible imagine. We are talking about being tortured all the time in every conceivable way forever.

duxup 3y ago

I feel like the expectations here are reasonable. I wouldn't want another employee interrupting my meeting like that either. As for the rest of your "salve owner" commentary I think that's an absurd comparison.

PheonixPharts 3y ago
Are you being deliberately obtuse? Surely you recognized there is a context to the "no interrupting meetings" guideline. The protester felt that meeting was playing part in the support and facilitation genocide, I think that's adequate grounds to interrupt a meeting. And what do you find absurd about the "slave owner" comparison? I'm not arguing that modern day employment is slavery or anything of the sort, just pointing out that the terms of "reasonable expectations" are always defined by those in power, and not once in history has working within "reasonable expectations" caused a shift in those power dynamics.
- duxup 3y ago
  Obviously his behavior wasn't simply interrupting a meeting.
- catlikesshrimp 3y ago
  >"Are you being deliberately obtuse?" This is getting your post more downvotes than your opinion is. It hurts your opinion.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

smsm42 3y ago

Nobody owes you or anybody to validate your beliefs. Employee, however, owes the company certain standards of behavior. If you violate them, you get fired, and can continue holding your beliefs outside of employment.

deterministic 3y ago

There are none. Power is the currency of the world. I don’t personally like it. However I want to see the world as it is and not live in a make believe fantasy bubble. Laws and rules are created and enforced by people in power. They are designed to force the less powerful to behaving in a certain way. It has nothing to do with “morals” or “justice”. You might happen to agree morally with certain laws or rules and not with others. However that doesn’t matter unless you are powerful enough to change those laws. In the case of companies, the people in power can make whatever rules they want. Unless more powerful people (the government/large groups of costumers/powerful unions) threaten the company with repercussions if those rules aren’t changed. Imagine (for example) a group of Vegans becoming powerful enough to outlaw eating meat. With heavy penalties (including death by execution) for anybody buying or selling meat for consumption. That is absolutely something that could happen. With the most extreme Vegans feeling morally justified in enforcing those rules. The only thing stopping this from happening is their lack of power. Another example is religion. Do as your told or you will go to hell. If you truly believe there is a hell then this threat is the most extreme usage of power you can possible imagine. We are talking about being tortured all the time in every conceivable way forever.