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> The National Guard members will conduct random bag checks on passengers I'm not asking this out of disbelief, but just out of genuine curiosity: What is the
by reaperman 3y ago
> The National Guard members will conduct random bag checks on passengers
I'm not asking this out of disbelief, but just out of genuine curiosity: What is the legal foundation that allows them to randomly search people who are simply going about their day? What happens whenever people say "no, you can't search my bag." ?
- _mlbt 3y agoI am not a lawyer, but I agree, this seems to be on questionable legal footing... Fourth Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
- tonypags 3y agoThis only applies to the gov't
- singleshot_ 3y agoIf you do some reading, I believe you will find that the National Guard is part of the government.
- _mlbt 3y agoThey might as well quarter the Soldiers in people’s houses since we’re ignoring so much of the rest of the Bill of Rights at this point.
- eesmith 3y agoWhat happens is they deny you access to the subway. From an NYT article about court decision in 2006, at https://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/12/nyregion/12search.html https://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/12/nyregion/12search.html > Passengers can refuse to open their bags and walk away, but they cannot go through the turnstile to the trains with bags they did not allow the police to search.
- Bartkusa 3y agoPossibly this: https://www.nyclu.org/en/cases/macwade-v-kelly-challenging-nypds-subway-bag-search-program https://www.nyclu.org/en/cases/macwade-v-kelly-challenging-n... > This case involves the NYPD's practice of stopping and searching subway goers without just cause. On July 21, 2005, the NYPD announced that it would begin a new program of searching the belongings of those seeking to enter the subway system. Since the program was implemented, the NYPD has searched tens of thousands of people without any suspicion of wrongdoing. On Aug. 4, 2005, the NYCLU filed a complaint in the District Court on behalf of five individuals. The complaint alleges that the NYPD program violates the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments... > On Dec. 7, 2005, the District Court ruled in favor of the defendants and refused the plaintiffs’ request for a permanent injunction. The decision stated that the random subway search program was not “impermissibly intrusive” and was constitutional. The NYCLU appealed to the United States Court of Appeals, Second Circuit. On Aug. 11, 2006, the Second Circuit upheld the District Court decision, stating that the program constitutes the “special need” exception to the Fourth Amendment.
- more_corn 3y agoI think that legal argument is that they’re protecting a transportation system and it’s users against violent attacks.
- pyuser583 3y agoThis is a guess, but authorities are allowed to search you on airplane. This might be a mass transit exception.
- paxys 3y agoThe same one that lets them search you at airports. You can say no, but then you cannot board the train.
- dvngnt_ 3y agothey stop and frisk people on the street in NY too
- kelipso 3y agoYou can say no, but then you shouldn't walk on the streets.
- tonypags 3y agoI smell sarcasm! :) But seriously, riding the subway is not a right. They make rules for the subway and enforce them at their own leisure. But it's 100% legal to turn someone away if they don't comply with rules they make up themselves. MTA is a private entity.
- paxys 3y agoLegally speaking they need "reasonable cause" to stop and frisk people on the streets (how that works in practice is a whole different discussion). At the subway entrance they can search all the bags they want for any or no reason.
- nonameiguess 3y agoYou're talking about getting onto an enclosed, protected space. You have the Constitutional right as an American to not be unreasonably searched, but that doesn't mean you have the right of free movement to any and all places not owned by you personally without restrictions imposed by whoever controls that space, even when it's the government. If you're trying to get into a courthouse, the white house, an airplane, a train, they can search you first. What happens if you refuse a search is you leave the platform and get back onto the street where you're allowed to move about freely without being subject to search.
- ProjectArcturis 3y agoThe sister comment describes a court ruling that bag searches are permissible for anti-terrorism purposes. However this new deployment is being challenged by the ACLU because the bag searches are being done for general law-enforcement reasons. I guess we'll see what the courts rule.