4 ms·

I don't think there is a strategy, this is all theater so he has some pushback if investors file complaints or lawsuits during the next quarterly results meetin

I don't think there is a strategy, this is all theater so he has some pushback if investors file complaints or lawsuits during the next quarterly results meeting. They can't say that Tim Cook didn't do everything in his power to make them even *more* money. Since, ultimately, his duty as a CEO is to prioritize the financial wealth of shareholders. If he just complied with the EU then he'd be voted out by the board by the end of the week. Is he going overboard? I think so. But I've also never owned a $2T+ company with investors and an entire government breathing down my neck.

wvenable 3y ago
> If he just complied with the EU then he'd be voted out by the board by the end of the week. Most companies like Facebook and Microsoft quietly comply with the rules as best they can with as little fanfare as possible. Maybe after paying a fine or two. As far as I know, there hasn't been any oustings because of that.
- notaustinpowers 3y ago
  Apple hasn't faced a fine yet for this, so there's really no material harm to them for acting like this. And it's great theater for shareholders. I'm sure once we get to the point where the EU is going to begin issuing fines for DMA violations then Apple will change their position. Microsoft was acting like this in the 90s. I think history is just repeating itself with Apple.
  - ajross 3y ago
    > Microsoft was acting like this in the 90s. I think history is just repeating itself with Apple. So... the difference was Microsoft was winning those fights because their enemy was other products in the market. They'd tell Dell not to ship Netscape, and Dell would yank the product. They'd clone java, and websites would code to that to get IE compliance. They'd push ActiveX and bribe web properties to implement it, and they would. This wasn't fair, but it was at least in some sense "competition". (I mean, eventually MS would go on to lose control of all those levers, but over decades of timescale and generally due to market motion.) Apple here is just flailing. It's a regulatory action, not a competitor. There's no feasible path to beating or evading EU law. Surely they know that, right?
    - notaustinpowers 3y ago
      True, trying to reason why Apple is acting like this is just making my head hurt lol
  - JanSt 3y ago
    Breton asked his team to look into the Epic / Apple case with _high priority_ yesterday.
- bzzzt 3y ago
  Apple stands to lose a lot more due to the DMA and parties like Spotify and Epic are doing everything they can to make Apple look bad in the public eye.
  - agust 3y ago
    I'm not sure Apple needs anyone but itself to look bad.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  I mean, Facebook has been repeatedly fined for various non-compliance, for years. Apple, at least for the moment, isn’t really there yet.
zarzavat 3y ago
Microsoft and Google seem to be able to comply without publicly embarrassing themselves. Investors are not stupid, they understand that companies have to comply with the law. This behavior is totally on management. If I were a big investor I’d be more worried by this since it seems like management are acting irrationally without any plan.
- notaustinpowers 3y ago
  Microsoft's compliance is largely to allow for Bing to be removed as their built-in search, and ability to uninstall Edge. They are also only allowing this within the EU market, not globally. Google just needs to allow for the selection of a default browser, provide links in Google search to competing sites (which Google will still make money off of with their ad delivery network anyway), opt-out option for sharing data between YT, Search, Maps, etc. As well as allow outside payment processors for apps. For Microsoft and Google, none of these changes are affecting their cash cow. Cloud computing for MS, and ads for Google. These DMA changes are affecting Apple's cash cow, the iPhone. and their second largest cash cow, Services and IAP. Apple has a LOT more on the line with these DMA changes than MS or Google do.
  - kevinh 3y ago
    DMA does affect Google's ad business. See https://blog.google/around-the-globe/google-europe/an-update-on-our-preparations-for-the-dma/ https://blog.google/around-the-globe/google-europe/an-update...
- xw390111 3y ago
  If it’s not this then it’s that. I.e. https://time.com/6835975/google-gemini-backlash-bias/ https://time.com/6835975/google-gemini-backlash-bias/ None of the large tech companies lack of embarrassment.
oldpersonintx 3y ago
[dead]
llm_nerd 3y ago
> Since, ultimately, his duty as a CEO is to prioritize the financial wealth of shareholders. I feel like the whole fiduciary responsibility bit is always the foundation of terrible arguments. As if every individual choice that earns a dollar is therefore forced. Earning multiple billion dollar fines is not serving shareholders. Sabotaging the future is not serving shareholders. Destroying goodwill is not serving shareholders. Apple's various tantrums and desperate clutching onto their market hasn't remotely been beneficial for the company, and I'd argue it is a big reason the company has started plateauing. Like how Valve went from being a game maker to being a purveyor of gambling crates and keys, Apple is desperately pimping for every bit of rent-seeking and service fees.
- notaustinpowers 3y ago
  I also hate fiduciary responsibility as a foundation for arguments, but it is a responsibility that will be 100% utilized by any of the shareholders who feel strongly enough that Cook didn't do everything in his power to generate more money. So it's still something that has to be taken into consideration. > Earning multiple billion-dollar fines is not serving shareholders. Correct, and until Apple is threatened with fines, I believe they'll continue doing this until it no longer serves them. I don't find the tantrums to be the cause of the plateauing, I think they're a response to it. The iPhone is their #1 money-maker (by a massive margin at that), and the smartphone market as a whole has been plateauing. That's why we've seen a shift over the years towards services, which is their #2 money-maker now. When the DMA strongly affects both of these revenue streams, tantrums will ensue. I'm not agreeing that what they're doing is correct, and I think it's shitty for a company that I consider the reason I got into the dev/design space to begin with to start acting like this. But I do see some business logic behind why they're doing what they're doing, even when it goes against what I know is correct.
  - ncruces 3y ago
    > Correct, and until Apple is threatened with fines, I believe they'll continue doing this until it no longer serves them. Commission fines Apple over €1.8 billion over abusive App store rules for music streaming providers. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_1161 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_... Maybe tripping up the same entity that's already on to you with other fines for similar behavior is not that smart.
ascorbic 3y ago
I think the board and shareholders probably want them to avoid picking needless fights with the world's most powerful competition regulator in the week when its most powerful regulations went into effect.

wvenable 3y ago

> If he just complied with the EU then he'd be voted out by the board by the end of the week. Most companies like Facebook and Microsoft quietly comply with the rules as best they can with as little fanfare as possible. Maybe after paying a fine or two. As far as I know, there hasn't been any oustings because of that.

notaustinpowers 3y ago
Apple hasn't faced a fine yet for this, so there's really no material harm to them for acting like this. And it's great theater for shareholders. I'm sure once we get to the point where the EU is going to begin issuing fines for DMA violations then Apple will change their position. Microsoft was acting like this in the 90s. I think history is just repeating itself with Apple.
- ajross 3y ago
  > Microsoft was acting like this in the 90s. I think history is just repeating itself with Apple. So... the difference was Microsoft was winning those fights because their enemy was other products in the market. They'd tell Dell not to ship Netscape, and Dell would yank the product. They'd clone java, and websites would code to that to get IE compliance. They'd push ActiveX and bribe web properties to implement it, and they would. This wasn't fair, but it was at least in some sense "competition". (I mean, eventually MS would go on to lose control of all those levers, but over decades of timescale and generally due to market motion.) Apple here is just flailing. It's a regulatory action, not a competitor. There's no feasible path to beating or evading EU law. Surely they know that, right?
  - notaustinpowers 3y ago
    True, trying to reason why Apple is acting like this is just making my head hurt lol
- JanSt 3y ago
  Breton asked his team to look into the Epic / Apple case with _high priority_ yesterday.
bzzzt 3y ago
Apple stands to lose a lot more due to the DMA and parties like Spotify and Epic are doing everything they can to make Apple look bad in the public eye.
- agust 3y ago
  I'm not sure Apple needs anyone but itself to look bad.
rsynnott 3y ago
I mean, Facebook has been repeatedly fined for various non-compliance, for years. Apple, at least for the moment, isn’t really there yet.

zarzavat 3y ago

Microsoft and Google seem to be able to comply without publicly embarrassing themselves. Investors are not stupid, they understand that companies have to comply with the law. This behavior is totally on management. If I were a big investor I’d be more worried by this since it seems like management are acting irrationally without any plan.

notaustinpowers 3y ago
Microsoft's compliance is largely to allow for Bing to be removed as their built-in search, and ability to uninstall Edge. They are also only allowing this within the EU market, not globally. Google just needs to allow for the selection of a default browser, provide links in Google search to competing sites (which Google will still make money off of with their ad delivery network anyway), opt-out option for sharing data between YT, Search, Maps, etc. As well as allow outside payment processors for apps. For Microsoft and Google, none of these changes are affecting their cash cow. Cloud computing for MS, and ads for Google. These DMA changes are affecting Apple's cash cow, the iPhone. and their second largest cash cow, Services and IAP. Apple has a LOT more on the line with these DMA changes than MS or Google do.
- kevinh 3y ago
  DMA does affect Google's ad business. See https://blog.google/around-the-globe/google-europe/an-update-on-our-preparations-for-the-dma/ https://blog.google/around-the-globe/google-europe/an-update...
xw390111 3y ago
If it’s not this then it’s that. I.e. https://time.com/6835975/google-gemini-backlash-bias/ https://time.com/6835975/google-gemini-backlash-bias/ None of the large tech companies lack of embarrassment.

oldpersonintx 3y ago

[dead]

llm_nerd 3y ago

> Since, ultimately, his duty as a CEO is to prioritize the financial wealth of shareholders. I feel like the whole fiduciary responsibility bit is always the foundation of terrible arguments. As if every individual choice that earns a dollar is therefore forced. Earning multiple billion dollar fines is not serving shareholders. Sabotaging the future is not serving shareholders. Destroying goodwill is not serving shareholders. Apple's various tantrums and desperate clutching onto their market hasn't remotely been beneficial for the company, and I'd argue it is a big reason the company has started plateauing. Like how Valve went from being a game maker to being a purveyor of gambling crates and keys, Apple is desperately pimping for every bit of rent-seeking and service fees.

notaustinpowers 3y ago
I also hate fiduciary responsibility as a foundation for arguments, but it is a responsibility that will be 100% utilized by any of the shareholders who feel strongly enough that Cook didn't do everything in his power to generate more money. So it's still something that has to be taken into consideration. > Earning multiple billion-dollar fines is not serving shareholders. Correct, and until Apple is threatened with fines, I believe they'll continue doing this until it no longer serves them. I don't find the tantrums to be the cause of the plateauing, I think they're a response to it. The iPhone is their #1 money-maker (by a massive margin at that), and the smartphone market as a whole has been plateauing. That's why we've seen a shift over the years towards services, which is their #2 money-maker now. When the DMA strongly affects both of these revenue streams, tantrums will ensue. I'm not agreeing that what they're doing is correct, and I think it's shitty for a company that I consider the reason I got into the dev/design space to begin with to start acting like this. But I do see some business logic behind why they're doing what they're doing, even when it goes against what I know is correct.
- ncruces 3y ago
  > Correct, and until Apple is threatened with fines, I believe they'll continue doing this until it no longer serves them. Commission fines Apple over €1.8 billion over abusive App store rules for music streaming providers. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_1161 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_... Maybe tripping up the same entity that's already on to you with other fines for similar behavior is not that smart.

ascorbic 3y ago

I think the board and shareholders probably want them to avoid picking needless fights with the world's most powerful competition regulator in the week when its most powerful regulations went into effect.