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We can stop dancing around the issue while pretending we don't understand why the TSA exists. In the aftermath of 9/11, the government has to be seen doing "so

by kibwen 3y ago

We can stop dancing around the issue while pretending we don't understand why the TSA exists. In the aftermath of 9/11, the government has to be seen doing "something". This was the something. Then, in the following years, the TSA evolved into a welfare program for veterans, because here in the US we can't dream of just giving people money, we have to invent bullshit jobs that make society worse.

lotsofpulp 3y ago
A jobs program with negative utility for the US. Would be nicer if the jobs program was picking up all the trash everywhere.
- rwmj 3y ago
  Or keeping public toilets gleaming clean, which seems to be the jobs program for the elderly in Japan.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    No one values this work, and so it’s an identity and status issue. “Soldiers” vs janitors and people who keep the lights on. (“Support our troops”, “back the blue”, etc).
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      > No one values this work No one pays for this work. Give people an appropriate salary and benefits like TSA workers get, and there will be no problem. Also, TSA worker is negative status.
      - toomuchtodo 3y ago
        > Also, TSA worker is negative status. Someone mentioned upthread this is a job for veterans because we won’t pay UBI or similar. It’s status enough, in some cases (“make work for veterans”.
        lotsofpulp 3y ago
        I don't think so, only a small portion is veterans. It's just a cheap jobs program for work that isn't really hard work and doesn't require much skill other than showing up. https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/factsheets/tsa-numbers https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/factsheets/tsa-numbers >Nearly 20 percent of TSA employees are veterans or still proudly serving
        WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
        >>Nearly 20 percent of TSA employees are veterans or still proudly serving That trailing qualification tells us that % of TSA employees still serve - but in a way that is other than proudly.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      It's not that it's not valued. Just look at what happens when the work isn't done, and you just see how much people suddenly recognize the value. The problem is that society has placed the janitorial job at the bottom of the list of wanted jobs. You know, the jobs immigrants are stealing
AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
I don't think most TSA employees are vets... I'm a veteran and it's relatively easy to identify a fellow vet most of the time.
- drunner 3y ago
  Its nearly 20% staffed by vets https://www.tsa.gov/about/employee-stories/veterans-working-tsa-great-fit-smooth-transition https://www.tsa.gov/about/employee-stories/veterans-working-...
  - blackfawn 3y ago
    It'd be interesting to see a breakdown of percentage of veterans in different government positions. I'd imagine they are all fairly similar levels since it's most likely just a transition from military to government rather than specifically military to TSA. In any case, I certainly wouldn't call TSA "a welfare program for veterans" as the parent comment suggests.
  - AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
    [dead]
expazl 3y ago
> In the aftermath of 9/11, the government has to be seen doing "something". This was the something. No, that might have been true then, but the real reason is the same that Airlines suddenly unlearned how to group people who book togehter to sit together unless they reserve booking. The security theator is expensive to run, but it's less expensive than what you make selling more expensive methods of avoiding the security theather. Airlines don't want you to have a nice and easy travel, unless you've paid the appropriate primum. They are perfectly happing intentionally pissing off 98% of their travelers to maintain the 2% who pay extra. And when you zoom out, that also means that what you pay for the premium tickets isn't to pay for extra luxery, its to pay for the intentional annoyance of everyone else.
- c-linkage 3y ago
  The more likely reason for the creation of the TSA was to prevent victims from suing airlines into oblivion for failing to provide security. The government knew that if the airlines were found responsible the entire aviation industry could collapse, so the Feds stepped in and said "it's our job" and created the TSA to make that responsibility clear. The situation is not dissimilar to how power tool companies would not deploy SawStop technology because that would make it clear to consumers that said companies knew their products were unsafe and would expose them to millions / billions in liability claims. https://www.aboutlawsuits.com/sawstop-boycott-lawsuit-ruling-88055/ https://www.aboutlawsuits.com/sawstop-boycott-lawsuit-ruling...
Fervicus 3y ago
TSA emerged in the aftermath of 9/11; TSA is USA specific. But why has every other country has adopted this useless security protocol. I don't understand that.
- BobaFloutist 3y ago
  We probably told them too. I assume US won't accept airplanes into its airspace with passengers that haven't been cleared to a security specification that looks almost identical to what TSA does.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    Or they don't want jihadists flying planes into their buildings either ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - BobaFloutist 3y ago
      Who do they want flying planes into their buildings?
      - ethanbond 3y ago
        Well they probably don't like Kamikaze pilots either but frankly those aren't much of a concern these days.
    - kibwen 3y ago
      This was solved by improved cockpit security procedures. The security theater at the airport is wholly unnecessary.
- edanm 3y ago
  This might be a crazy idea, but maybe... it's not completely useless? Maybe if many countries deem it necessary, and many people who (I assume) have more expertise than most casual observers like us on HN also deem it necessary, maybe they might be right and we might be wrong about how necessary or not this is?

by kibwen 3y ago

lotsofpulp 3y ago

A jobs program with negative utility for the US. Would be nicer if the jobs program was picking up all the trash everywhere.

rwmj 3y ago
Or keeping public toilets gleaming clean, which seems to be the jobs program for the elderly in Japan.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  No one values this work, and so it’s an identity and status issue. “Soldiers” vs janitors and people who keep the lights on. (“Support our troops”, “back the blue”, etc).
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    > No one values this work No one pays for this work. Give people an appropriate salary and benefits like TSA workers get, and there will be no problem. Also, TSA worker is negative status.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      > Also, TSA worker is negative status. Someone mentioned upthread this is a job for veterans because we won’t pay UBI or similar. It’s status enough, in some cases (“make work for veterans”.
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        I don't think so, only a small portion is veterans. It's just a cheap jobs program for work that isn't really hard work and doesn't require much skill other than showing up. https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/factsheets/tsa-numbers https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/factsheets/tsa-numbers >Nearly 20 percent of TSA employees are veterans or still proudly serving
        WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
        >>Nearly 20 percent of TSA employees are veterans or still proudly serving That trailing qualification tells us that % of TSA employees still serve - but in a way that is other than proudly.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    It's not that it's not valued. Just look at what happens when the work isn't done, and you just see how much people suddenly recognize the value. The problem is that society has placed the janitorial job at the bottom of the list of wanted jobs. You know, the jobs immigrants are stealing

AlgorithmicTime 3y ago

I don't think most TSA employees are vets... I'm a veteran and it's relatively easy to identify a fellow vet most of the time.

drunner 3y ago
Its nearly 20% staffed by vets https://www.tsa.gov/about/employee-stories/veterans-working-tsa-great-fit-smooth-transition https://www.tsa.gov/about/employee-stories/veterans-working-...
- blackfawn 3y ago
  It'd be interesting to see a breakdown of percentage of veterans in different government positions. I'd imagine they are all fairly similar levels since it's most likely just a transition from military to government rather than specifically military to TSA. In any case, I certainly wouldn't call TSA "a welfare program for veterans" as the parent comment suggests.
- AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
  [dead]

expazl 3y ago

> In the aftermath of 9/11, the government has to be seen doing "something". This was the something. No, that might have been true then, but the real reason is the same that Airlines suddenly unlearned how to group people who book togehter to sit together unless they reserve booking. The security theator is expensive to run, but it's less expensive than what you make selling more expensive methods of avoiding the security theather. Airlines don't want you to have a nice and easy travel, unless you've paid the appropriate primum. They are perfectly happing intentionally pissing off 98% of their travelers to maintain the 2% who pay extra. And when you zoom out, that also means that what you pay for the premium tickets isn't to pay for extra luxery, its to pay for the intentional annoyance of everyone else.

c-linkage 3y ago
The more likely reason for the creation of the TSA was to prevent victims from suing airlines into oblivion for failing to provide security. The government knew that if the airlines were found responsible the entire aviation industry could collapse, so the Feds stepped in and said "it's our job" and created the TSA to make that responsibility clear. The situation is not dissimilar to how power tool companies would not deploy SawStop technology because that would make it clear to consumers that said companies knew their products were unsafe and would expose them to millions / billions in liability claims. https://www.aboutlawsuits.com/sawstop-boycott-lawsuit-ruling-88055/ https://www.aboutlawsuits.com/sawstop-boycott-lawsuit-ruling...

Fervicus 3y ago

TSA emerged in the aftermath of 9/11; TSA is USA specific. But why has every other country has adopted this useless security protocol. I don't understand that.

BobaFloutist 3y ago
We probably told them too. I assume US won't accept airplanes into its airspace with passengers that haven't been cleared to a security specification that looks almost identical to what TSA does.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  Or they don't want jihadists flying planes into their buildings either ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - BobaFloutist 3y ago
    Who do they want flying planes into their buildings?
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      Well they probably don't like Kamikaze pilots either but frankly those aren't much of a concern these days.
  - kibwen 3y ago
    This was solved by improved cockpit security procedures. The security theater at the airport is wholly unnecessary.
edanm 3y ago
This might be a crazy idea, but maybe... it's not completely useless? Maybe if many countries deem it necessary, and many people who (I assume) have more expertise than most casual observers like us on HN also deem it necessary, maybe they might be right and we might be wrong about how necessary or not this is?