4 ms·

Very weak evidence presented in the article. Airbnb is surely a factor in rental price increases, but if it were in fact a leading causative factor, how come mu

by hodder 3y ago

Very weak evidence presented in the article. Airbnb is surely a factor in rental price increases, but if it were in fact a leading causative factor, how come municipalities that ban airbnb do not see rental prices drop materially? The focus clearly needs to be put on adding substantial supply, and in Canada at least, reigning in the demand from new immigration.

johnchristopher 3y ago
Do rental prices ever drop ? I think they may increase slower but that's about it.
- hodder 3y ago
  Certainly. If supply were to increase faster than demand, pricing would fall in real terms. This has happened many times in history in Canadian municipalities.
  - johnchristopher 3y ago
    I am happy for you. On western continental Europe where I live I never saw that. Houses where highways are getting built see their selling prices drop though.
- Slurpee99 3y ago
  Of course they can drop, even in [insert your country here] but look worldwide for more extreme examples.
- bgirard 3y ago
  Also an increase below inflation/wages is a drop, particularly if sustained over a long period of time.
- paxys 3y ago
  Rents in San Francisco are well below what they were in 2015-2019.
  - johnchristopher 3y ago
    I wonder how rental market is and what it feels like elsewhere. Here it seems to move at a glacial pace. Mayors throw parties when a block of 4 appartements is built (never mind the destroyed 20 rentals in the process, killed the local shops for the 6 years completion took, but that's another problem).
- dimask 3y ago
  Well in places in the middle of economic crisis and where people become poorer with decreased salaries and increased unemployment, it has happened actually, because the alternative would be the landlord to have to pay maintenance and taxes anyway. But probably not right now in the west.
  - johnchristopher 3y ago
    We are slowly getting there in the country I live in: they are enacting laws to tax empty rentals and hiring people to check utilities usage and physically mapping empty floors from the street.
- Tiktaalik 3y ago
  It's pretty rare to see prices go down. I think it's most likely when the market really lurches due to some economic shocks and there is a short term over supply of housing, but the market corrects pretty quickly. What is more common in a healthy housing market with lots of vacancy is that prices continue to go up, but below inflation.
LegitShady 3y ago
everyone wants to move there to get away from the party condos.
teeray 3y ago
Part of the issue is that being a landlord for short-term tenants is very different than being a landlord for long-term tenants. There's a misconception that "well, if we ban STRs, then they'll have to rent long-term. Checkmate." In many municipalities that have banned short-term rentals (particularly vacation destinations with many second homes), many landlords would just say "okay, I'm not renting at all then."
- trgn 3y ago
  for real. small time landlording is a drag, living under damocles' sword, one bad tenant or calamity away from getting months of your life ruined. small time airbnb renting is just gravy in comparison.
- tmacam 3y ago
  Well, they don't _have_ to rent long-term but if the unit is kept unoccupied, then they will be hit with the Empty Homes Tax in Vancouver, for instance. So yeah, they are forcing the landlords hand here. And yes, I agree the house problem is a supply-vs-demand issue. And this is not addressing the core problem. But in a place with extremely low rent vacancy [2], having units removed from the market for STR isn't helping. [1]: https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/empty-homes-tax.aspx https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/empty-homes-t... [2]: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/rent-prices-rose-in-2023-1.7100571 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/rent-prices-rose-in-2023-1....
  - travisb 3y ago
    The empty homes tax is a joke. It's too easy to bypass (just have somebody you know use it as their primary address and add a few lamps on timers) and priced too low (in many cases the tax is cheaper than the costs of having long term tenants).
- scoofy 3y ago
  The way to reduce the number of airbnbs is to allow more hotels to be built and in better parts of the cities. The idea that full-time airbnbs could ever complete with the brutal efficiency of the hotel industry is crazy, but again, the only reason why AirBnB exists is to capture the some of the real estate value created by the artificial real estate shortage.
mbrameld 3y ago
> how come municipalities that ban airbnb do not see rental prices drop materially? When someone is looking to move to an area, they're looking to move to the area, not a specific municipality. If the municipality that banned AirBnB were isolated enough from other communities that did allow AirBnB you would likely see rents decrease as supply would meaningfully increase when the AirBnBs are banned. But in practice, the number of AirBnBs in the municipality that bans them relative to the number of houses in the same rental market area is small.

by hodder 3y ago

johnchristopher 3y ago

Do rental prices ever drop ? I think they may increase slower but that's about it.

hodder 3y ago
Certainly. If supply were to increase faster than demand, pricing would fall in real terms. This has happened many times in history in Canadian municipalities.
- johnchristopher 3y ago
  I am happy for you. On western continental Europe where I live I never saw that. Houses where highways are getting built see their selling prices drop though.
Slurpee99 3y ago
Of course they can drop, even in [insert your country here] but look worldwide for more extreme examples.
bgirard 3y ago
Also an increase below inflation/wages is a drop, particularly if sustained over a long period of time.
paxys 3y ago
Rents in San Francisco are well below what they were in 2015-2019.
- johnchristopher 3y ago
  I wonder how rental market is and what it feels like elsewhere. Here it seems to move at a glacial pace. Mayors throw parties when a block of 4 appartements is built (never mind the destroyed 20 rentals in the process, killed the local shops for the 6 years completion took, but that's another problem).
dimask 3y ago
Well in places in the middle of economic crisis and where people become poorer with decreased salaries and increased unemployment, it has happened actually, because the alternative would be the landlord to have to pay maintenance and taxes anyway. But probably not right now in the west.
- johnchristopher 3y ago
  We are slowly getting there in the country I live in: they are enacting laws to tax empty rentals and hiring people to check utilities usage and physically mapping empty floors from the street.
Tiktaalik 3y ago
It's pretty rare to see prices go down. I think it's most likely when the market really lurches due to some economic shocks and there is a short term over supply of housing, but the market corrects pretty quickly. What is more common in a healthy housing market with lots of vacancy is that prices continue to go up, but below inflation.

LegitShady 3y ago

everyone wants to move there to get away from the party condos.

teeray 3y ago

Part of the issue is that being a landlord for short-term tenants is very different than being a landlord for long-term tenants. There's a misconception that "well, if we ban STRs, then they'll have to rent long-term. Checkmate." In many municipalities that have banned short-term rentals (particularly vacation destinations with many second homes), many landlords would just say "okay, I'm not renting at all then."

trgn 3y ago
for real. small time landlording is a drag, living under damocles' sword, one bad tenant or calamity away from getting months of your life ruined. small time airbnb renting is just gravy in comparison.
tmacam 3y ago
Well, they don't _have_ to rent long-term but if the unit is kept unoccupied, then they will be hit with the Empty Homes Tax in Vancouver, for instance. So yeah, they are forcing the landlords hand here. And yes, I agree the house problem is a supply-vs-demand issue. And this is not addressing the core problem. But in a place with extremely low rent vacancy [2], having units removed from the market for STR isn't helping. [1]: https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/empty-homes-tax.aspx https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/empty-homes-t... [2]: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/rent-prices-rose-in-2023-1.7100571 https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/rent-prices-rose-in-2023-1....
- travisb 3y ago
  The empty homes tax is a joke. It's too easy to bypass (just have somebody you know use it as their primary address and add a few lamps on timers) and priced too low (in many cases the tax is cheaper than the costs of having long term tenants).
scoofy 3y ago
The way to reduce the number of airbnbs is to allow more hotels to be built and in better parts of the cities. The idea that full-time airbnbs could ever complete with the brutal efficiency of the hotel industry is crazy, but again, the only reason why AirBnB exists is to capture the some of the real estate value created by the artificial real estate shortage.

mbrameld 3y ago

> how come municipalities that ban airbnb do not see rental prices drop materially? When someone is looking to move to an area, they're looking to move to the area, not a specific municipality. If the municipality that banned AirBnB were isolated enough from other communities that did allow AirBnB you would likely see rents decrease as supply would meaningfully increase when the AirBnBs are banned. But in practice, the number of AirBnBs in the municipality that bans them relative to the number of houses in the same rental market area is small.