5 ms·

In case others are coming into this thinking about LK-99, the article isn't about that. I had figured the LK-99 team might actually have something interesting

In case others are coming into this thinking about LK-99, the article isn't about that. I had figured the LK-99 team might actually have something interesting considering that they were promising a proper presentation of their work at the American Physical Society. I had heard it had been withdrawn and wrote it off as another case of academic fraud, but looking it up right now, apparently it's weirder than that. Someone pretended to be the corresponding author and submitted a withdrawal, but this was fixed and the conference the presentation is at should be happening around these days.

DarmokJalad1701 3y ago
It already happened a few days ago (March 4th). They showed more results, but nothing ground-breaking. There is another group that is also replicating the results and publishing results (SCT Lab or something). Their paper is currently pending.
- progrus 3y ago
  They’re waiting for Arxiv to approve because patents may be denied if they go around that system.
adastra22 3y ago
LK-99 is interesting because it really is like another example of cold fusion. And I don't mean what you probably infer from that. If you look into the way that hydrogen adsorbs into a platinum lattice, and how phonon resonance modes can induce tremendous crushing forces on anything between two platinum atoms, cold fusion actually looks quite plausible. It's not like perpetual motion--there's a clear possible mechanism for it which is surprisingly fully compatible with the laws of physics as we understand them. That said, Pons and Fleischmann rushed publication on shoddy data, making a mockery of themselves and causing cold fusion to become an untouchable subject no one would go near a generation later due to perceived guilt by association. The theory behind LK-99 is pretty solid. The linear structure of these apatite compounds create chains of conductive electron bands that in theory might have sufficient band gaps to enable superconductivity. If you could get atomic precision in the copper/lead alternating pattern that creates those stresses. However I fear any research into room-temperature linear superconductors will now be as taboo as cold fusion.
- worik 3y ago
  > That said, Pons and Fleischmann rushed publication on shoddy data, making a mockery of themselves and causing cold fusion to become an untouchable subject no one would go near a generation later Yes, they were shoddy But no, the field was swamped within weeks with people trying to replicate it. It has lost its luster, and become a parody, but that is because it was wrong It took a decade for the excitement to die down
  - adastra22 3y ago
    Pons and Fleischmann's experimental setup did not produce cold fusion. But some other variation or different catalyst material might. Yet effectively no one has carried on this work. LK-99, or at least the manufactured samples of it, is not a superconductor. But some other variation or different manufacturing technique might. Yet I predict no one is going to look very hard in the years to come.
- kergonath 3y ago
  > If you look into the way that hydrogen adsorbs into a platinum lattice, and how phonon resonance modes can induce tremendous crushing forces on anything between two platinum atoms, cold fusion actually looks quite plausible. No, it is not. These things are well understood. The behaviour of hydrogen in crystals is studied a lot. In metals because of issues with hydrogen embrittlement and fusion stuff, in some oxides for the storage of hydrogen for energy applications, and in material in general because proton irradiation is a common tool when studying them. All of this to say that this is not something that was never investigated. > It's not like perpetual motion--there's a clear possible mechanism for it which is surprisingly fully compatible with the laws of physics as we understand them. The orders of magnitude just do not match. The pressures involved is typically 1 GPa (usually less in metals, more in ceramics). That is far from enough to bring nuclei sufficiently close for fusion. There is a reason why nobody claims this, and it is not because we don’t look at the behaviour of hydrogen (or other light nuclei like deuterium, tritium, helium, or lithium for that matter). > The theory behind LK-99 is pretty solid. The linear structure of these apatite compounds create chains of conductive electron bands that in theory might have sufficient band gaps to enable superconductivity. Again, it is not. Some preliminary electronic structure calculations showed interesting features, but these features were no indication of superconducting behaviour, and indeed LK-99 is not a superconductor. There were plenty of people who tried to reproduce the results and it clearly showed that the initial paper was wrong. > If you could get atomic precision in the copper/lead alternating pattern that creates those stresses. Our understanding of what causes superconductivity and the creation of Cooper pairs is not complete. Otherwise, we’d design materials with the right properties from the beginning, rather than testing a lot of stuff just to see what works. > However I fear any research into room-temperature linear superconductors will now be as taboo as cold fusion. Contrary to cold fusion, superconduction is actually a thing. Current high-temperature superconductors work at the temperature of liquid nitrogen; finding one that works 100K higher is not that much of a stretch. The gap is not 6 orders of magnitude like with cold fusion. In fact, there is quite a lot of funding for research on high-temperature superconductors even this year so your fear is not really well founded.

DarmokJalad1701 3y ago

It already happened a few days ago (March 4th). They showed more results, but nothing ground-breaking. There is another group that is also replicating the results and publishing results (SCT Lab or something). Their paper is currently pending.

progrus 3y ago
They’re waiting for Arxiv to approve because patents may be denied if they go around that system.

adastra22 3y ago

LK-99 is interesting because it really is like another example of cold fusion. And I don't mean what you probably infer from that. If you look into the way that hydrogen adsorbs into a platinum lattice, and how phonon resonance modes can induce tremendous crushing forces on anything between two platinum atoms, cold fusion actually looks quite plausible. It's not like perpetual motion--there's a clear possible mechanism for it which is surprisingly fully compatible with the laws of physics as we understand them. That said, Pons and Fleischmann rushed publication on shoddy data, making a mockery of themselves and causing cold fusion to become an untouchable subject no one would go near a generation later due to perceived guilt by association. The theory behind LK-99 is pretty solid. The linear structure of these apatite compounds create chains of conductive electron bands that in theory might have sufficient band gaps to enable superconductivity. If you could get atomic precision in the copper/lead alternating pattern that creates those stresses. However I fear any research into room-temperature linear superconductors will now be as taboo as cold fusion.

worik 3y ago
> That said, Pons and Fleischmann rushed publication on shoddy data, making a mockery of themselves and causing cold fusion to become an untouchable subject no one would go near a generation later Yes, they were shoddy But no, the field was swamped within weeks with people trying to replicate it. It has lost its luster, and become a parody, but that is because it was wrong It took a decade for the excitement to die down
- adastra22 3y ago
  Pons and Fleischmann's experimental setup did not produce cold fusion. But some other variation or different catalyst material might. Yet effectively no one has carried on this work. LK-99, or at least the manufactured samples of it, is not a superconductor. But some other variation or different manufacturing technique might. Yet I predict no one is going to look very hard in the years to come.
kergonath 3y ago
> If you look into the way that hydrogen adsorbs into a platinum lattice, and how phonon resonance modes can induce tremendous crushing forces on anything between two platinum atoms, cold fusion actually looks quite plausible. No, it is not. These things are well understood. The behaviour of hydrogen in crystals is studied a lot. In metals because of issues with hydrogen embrittlement and fusion stuff, in some oxides for the storage of hydrogen for energy applications, and in material in general because proton irradiation is a common tool when studying them. All of this to say that this is not something that was never investigated. > It's not like perpetual motion--there's a clear possible mechanism for it which is surprisingly fully compatible with the laws of physics as we understand them. The orders of magnitude just do not match. The pressures involved is typically 1 GPa (usually less in metals, more in ceramics). That is far from enough to bring nuclei sufficiently close for fusion. There is a reason why nobody claims this, and it is not because we don’t look at the behaviour of hydrogen (or other light nuclei like deuterium, tritium, helium, or lithium for that matter). > The theory behind LK-99 is pretty solid. The linear structure of these apatite compounds create chains of conductive electron bands that in theory might have sufficient band gaps to enable superconductivity. Again, it is not. Some preliminary electronic structure calculations showed interesting features, but these features were no indication of superconducting behaviour, and indeed LK-99 is not a superconductor. There were plenty of people who tried to reproduce the results and it clearly showed that the initial paper was wrong. > If you could get atomic precision in the copper/lead alternating pattern that creates those stresses. Our understanding of what causes superconductivity and the creation of Cooper pairs is not complete. Otherwise, we’d design materials with the right properties from the beginning, rather than testing a lot of stuff just to see what works. > However I fear any research into room-temperature linear superconductors will now be as taboo as cold fusion. Contrary to cold fusion, superconduction is actually a thing. Current high-temperature superconductors work at the temperature of liquid nitrogen; finding one that works 100K higher is not that much of a stretch. The gap is not 6 orders of magnitude like with cold fusion. In fact, there is quite a lot of funding for research on high-temperature superconductors even this year so your fear is not really well founded.