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None of these are syntax. `printf` in C or scala/groovy is a function call, which relates to the language's API, the C++ use of streams is an API decision, Java

None of these are syntax. `printf` in C or scala/groovy is a function call, which relates to the language's API, the C++ use of streams is an API decision, Java being funky is due to its API (and its semantics to a lesser extent). The only language I can think of off the top of my head where print would be syntax would be python, and even then 1) that's only for versions <=2, and 2) the formatting would still be an API choice.

astrobe_ 14y ago
printf/scanf do have a syntax. But you're not wrong saying it is not part of the syntax of the language stricto sensu. I personnaly don't like the printf/scanf style, which unfortunately often prevails in newer languages. I definitely prefer the string interpolation method, or just plain string concatenation.
- lloeki 14y ago
  > I definitely prefer the string interpolation method, or just plain string concatenation. You're mixing things up; the point of printf is to format data, of which "%s / %s / %s" is a subset. Constructs like "0x%04x" or "%12s" really are about formatting.
  - jasomill 14y ago
    Yes, but they're often used for "mere" interpolation, especially in languages where, rightly or wrongly, string concatenation is believed to be inefficient. I personally do this nine times out of ten, if only out of habit. For my part, I've never personally liked the use of "+", in particular, to denote concatenation, for the (admittedly silly) reason that string concatenation is not commutative. If nothing else, it's a bit of a slippery slope to even more dubious operator overloads, though not nearly so much as C++'s bloody I/O "operators"!
    - lloeki 14y ago
      It's not uncommon to use + for groups even if they're not abelian, esp. with near-rings. This takes all its importance with duck-typing, as syntactic sugar of binary operators will be translated to a method call, e.g in Ruby a + b becomes a.+(b) [0]. while in Python it's a.__add__(b) [1]. The result might be commutative, but the call and evaluation order certainly is not. [0] http://ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/Fixnum.html#method-i-2B http://ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/Fixnum.html#method-i-2B [1] http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__add__ http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__add...

astrobe_ 14y ago

printf/scanf do have a syntax. But you're not wrong saying it is not part of the syntax of the language stricto sensu. I personnaly don't like the printf/scanf style, which unfortunately often prevails in newer languages. I definitely prefer the string interpolation method, or just plain string concatenation.

lloeki 14y ago
> I definitely prefer the string interpolation method, or just plain string concatenation. You're mixing things up; the point of printf is to format data, of which "%s / %s / %s" is a subset. Constructs like "0x%04x" or "%12s" really are about formatting.
- jasomill 14y ago
  Yes, but they're often used for "mere" interpolation, especially in languages where, rightly or wrongly, string concatenation is believed to be inefficient. I personally do this nine times out of ten, if only out of habit. For my part, I've never personally liked the use of "+", in particular, to denote concatenation, for the (admittedly silly) reason that string concatenation is not commutative. If nothing else, it's a bit of a slippery slope to even more dubious operator overloads, though not nearly so much as C++'s bloody I/O "operators"!
  - lloeki 14y ago
    It's not uncommon to use + for groups even if they're not abelian, esp. with near-rings. This takes all its importance with duck-typing, as syntactic sugar of binary operators will be translated to a method call, e.g in Ruby a + b becomes a.+(b) [0]. while in Python it's a.__add__(b) [1]. The result might be commutative, but the call and evaluation order certainly is not. [0] http://ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/Fixnum.html#method-i-2B http://ruby-doc.org/core-1.9.3/Fixnum.html#method-i-2B [1] http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__add__ http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html#object.__add...