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> Actually I think you should re-read my comment. Ok, done. Still didn't see anything beyond assertions based on nothing but your own preference, and counterin

> Actually I think you should re-read my comment. Ok, done. Still didn't see anything beyond assertions based on nothing but your own preference, and countering things I said without any support. > Oh, sorry, I didn't realise I was talking to the world expert on button animations. So do users prefer quadratic or exponential smoothing on their switches? Of course I didn't say I was the world expert in button animation, but I'm far beyond the age where I feel compelled to pretend random developers' uninformed opinions on design are as useful as mine. Lots of developers get really mad when people point out that that their software development expertise doesn't make them experts in all other fields, but that's a you problem.

James_K 3y ago
> I'm far beyond the age where I feel compelled to pretend random developers' uninformed opinions on design are as useful as mine. Yet your opinions are also uninformed. Or you've done precious little to convince people otherwise. Perhaps you should make arguments instead of just saying you have experience and it makes you correct. Does acting conceited often convince people of your perspectives? No? Then why do it? Surely telling me your thoughts would be much more convincing than simply asserting that you've had them. > and countering things I said without any support You are the one claiming to have numerical evidence to support your conclusions and failing to provide it. I think it is unreasonable to expect me to give that which you cannot.
- chefandy 3y ago
  > You are the one claiming to have numerical evidence to support your conclusions and failing to provide it. I think it is unreasonable to expect me to give that which you cannot. That appropriately applied animations are a valuable part of interface usability is not controversial. A four second google search will confirm that and I'm not going to do that for you just because you refuse to look. Anyone dismissing the idea out-of-hand based on their own preferences and assumptions has the burden of proof. > Yet your opinions are also uninformed. Or you've done precious little to convince people otherwise. Perhaps you should make arguments instead of just saying you have experience and it makes you correct. Does acting conceited often convince people of your perspectives? No? Then why do it? Surely telling me your thoughts would be much more convincing than simply asserting that you've had them. Yes. How conceited of me to not scramble to go grab citations for a bunch of people in a completely different field asserting that they know more about design than designers. Surely if you stumbled upon a bunch of designers making sweeping, arrogant, unsupported declarations about software development and the incompetence of developers, you'd trip over yourself to gather any evidence they demanded to prove your point when you corrected them on their foundational misgivings. Surely you wouldn't just tell them to go google it for themselves. "Am I out of touch with the current state of design? No: it's the designers who are wrong."
  - James_K 3y ago
    > appropriately applied animations Appropriately applied anything is good. I am disputing whether this is an appropriate application. > How conceited of me to not scramble to go grab citations This what not conceited. There is nothing wrong with not having the numbers for something, you should just try to avoid claiming you do if you can't actually find any. The conceited bit was your general attitude. Writing many lines of text about how much experience you have, how everyone else is stupid and has worthless opinions, etc. > Surely if you stumbled upon a bunch of designers making sweeping, arrogant, unsupported declarations about software development and the incompetence of developers I would likely agree with them. Most software is quite bad, and most of it isn't designed much better. When I say a lot of designers are wasting time on this stuff, I base this on developers doing the same thing. If the people making these claims were incorrect about something, I would simply explain why that is rather than saying "I have a bunch of experience that you don't have and there are some studies that prove your silly little feelings wrong. Your opinions are worthless compared to mine." The reason I wouldn't say this is because it's conceited and it doesn't convince anyone of anything. > "Am I out of touch with the current state of design? No: it's the designers who are wrong." I am more concerned with what users think than I am with the current trends in design. Anyone can be a designer, that doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.
    - chefandy 3y ago
      > Appropriately applied anything is good. I am disputing whether this is an appropriate application. Ok, explain why this animation is not an appropriate application of this animation in a technical demonstration of this animation. > I would likely agree with them. Most software is quite bad, and most of it isn't designed much better. When I say a lot of designers are wasting time on this stuff, I base this on developers doing the same thing. Copout. > If the people making these claims were incorrect about something, I would simply explain why that is rather than saying "I have a bunch of experience that you don't have and there are some studies that prove your silly little feelings wrong. Your opinions are worthless compared to mine." The reason I wouldn't say this is because it's conceited and it doesn't convince anyone of anything. Read the comment I wrote initially, where I explained, at length, why the comment I responded to was not correct. > I am more concerned with what users think than I am with the current trends in design. Anyone can be a designer, that doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. Yes, anybody can be an anything, and luckily we've got gobs of Dunning-Kreuger mountaineers in the software business to assess their competence.

James_K 3y ago

> I'm far beyond the age where I feel compelled to pretend random developers' uninformed opinions on design are as useful as mine. Yet your opinions are also uninformed. Or you've done precious little to convince people otherwise. Perhaps you should make arguments instead of just saying you have experience and it makes you correct. Does acting conceited often convince people of your perspectives? No? Then why do it? Surely telling me your thoughts would be much more convincing than simply asserting that you've had them. > and countering things I said without any support You are the one claiming to have numerical evidence to support your conclusions and failing to provide it. I think it is unreasonable to expect me to give that which you cannot.

chefandy 3y ago
> You are the one claiming to have numerical evidence to support your conclusions and failing to provide it. I think it is unreasonable to expect me to give that which you cannot. That appropriately applied animations are a valuable part of interface usability is not controversial. A four second google search will confirm that and I'm not going to do that for you just because you refuse to look. Anyone dismissing the idea out-of-hand based on their own preferences and assumptions has the burden of proof. > Yet your opinions are also uninformed. Or you've done precious little to convince people otherwise. Perhaps you should make arguments instead of just saying you have experience and it makes you correct. Does acting conceited often convince people of your perspectives? No? Then why do it? Surely telling me your thoughts would be much more convincing than simply asserting that you've had them. Yes. How conceited of me to not scramble to go grab citations for a bunch of people in a completely different field asserting that they know more about design than designers. Surely if you stumbled upon a bunch of designers making sweeping, arrogant, unsupported declarations about software development and the incompetence of developers, you'd trip over yourself to gather any evidence they demanded to prove your point when you corrected them on their foundational misgivings. Surely you wouldn't just tell them to go google it for themselves. "Am I out of touch with the current state of design? No: it's the designers who are wrong."
- James_K 3y ago
  > appropriately applied animations Appropriately applied anything is good. I am disputing whether this is an appropriate application. > How conceited of me to not scramble to go grab citations This what not conceited. There is nothing wrong with not having the numbers for something, you should just try to avoid claiming you do if you can't actually find any. The conceited bit was your general attitude. Writing many lines of text about how much experience you have, how everyone else is stupid and has worthless opinions, etc. > Surely if you stumbled upon a bunch of designers making sweeping, arrogant, unsupported declarations about software development and the incompetence of developers I would likely agree with them. Most software is quite bad, and most of it isn't designed much better. When I say a lot of designers are wasting time on this stuff, I base this on developers doing the same thing. If the people making these claims were incorrect about something, I would simply explain why that is rather than saying "I have a bunch of experience that you don't have and there are some studies that prove your silly little feelings wrong. Your opinions are worthless compared to mine." The reason I wouldn't say this is because it's conceited and it doesn't convince anyone of anything. > "Am I out of touch with the current state of design? No: it's the designers who are wrong." I am more concerned with what users think than I am with the current trends in design. Anyone can be a designer, that doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.
  - chefandy 3y ago
    > Appropriately applied anything is good. I am disputing whether this is an appropriate application. Ok, explain why this animation is not an appropriate application of this animation in a technical demonstration of this animation. > I would likely agree with them. Most software is quite bad, and most of it isn't designed much better. When I say a lot of designers are wasting time on this stuff, I base this on developers doing the same thing. Copout. > If the people making these claims were incorrect about something, I would simply explain why that is rather than saying "I have a bunch of experience that you don't have and there are some studies that prove your silly little feelings wrong. Your opinions are worthless compared to mine." The reason I wouldn't say this is because it's conceited and it doesn't convince anyone of anything. Read the comment I wrote initially, where I explained, at length, why the comment I responded to was not correct. > I am more concerned with what users think than I am with the current trends in design. Anyone can be a designer, that doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. Yes, anybody can be an anything, and luckily we've got gobs of Dunning-Kreuger mountaineers in the software business to assess their competence.