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> I think that complaint is secondary to fears of China gathering massive amounts of data on US citizens and having the power to influence what content they are

> I think that complaint is secondary to fears of China gathering massive amounts of data on US citizens and having the power to influence what content they are exposed to. We already know that Facebook does the same, and we already know for a fact that they have wielded this power against the public interest. Focusing on the nationality is a red herring - a US-based company can be just as adversarial as a foreign one.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
We don't fucking care that Facebook or other US companies do the same. We care when it's a front of the Chinese communist government which is growing more adversarial by the day. If you don't think they're a front of the Chinese government then you haven't been paying attention to the weekly reports on China for the last few years.
mathgradthrow 3y ago
Stop equivocating. Facebook is under US jurisdiction. Tiktok is not.
- chimeracoder 3y ago
  > Stop equivocating. Facebook is under US jurisdiction. Tiktok is not. This is straight-up factually incorrect.
- lost_womble 3y ago
  Imagine saying something this wrong this confidently.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > Imagine saying something this wrong this confidently. How is it wrong? Are you making a super-big deal that, say, TikTok has some US-registered LLC's or something? What ultimately matters is who owns and controls it, and whose jurisdiction they're under.
- jerojero 3y ago
  Wasn't Facebook used by russian intelligence to manipulate the 2016 elections? Does it even matter that it's under US jurisdiction if it can be misused by foreign actors without any real consequences? Meta just uses its lobbying to keep itself without harm.
readyman 3y ago
Facebook is used to keep in touch with loved ones. Tik Tok is not. This is a very significant factor in sentiment for one vs the other.
tivert 3y ago
> Focusing on the nationality is a red herring - a US-based company can be just as adversarial as a foreign one. Come on, you can't be serious. Even considered at a pretty abstract and uninformed level, it's clear even the most "adversarial" domestic company would not go places an adversarial foreign company would.
- chimeracoder 3y ago
  > Even considered at a pretty abstract and uninformed level, it's clear even the most "adversarial" domestic company would not go places an adversarial foreign company would. Between TikTok and Facebook, one has already gone demonstrably further than the other, and it's not TikTok.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > Between TikTok and Facebook, one has already gone demonstrably further than the other, and it's not TikTok. This is geopolitics, not criminal law. It's not about what was done, but about what could be done. Whatever specific past actions of Facebook or TikTok that you're vaguely gesturing at don't matter.
bequanna 3y ago
Except it isn't the same. China is a geopolitical foe who is quite serious about espionage. We don't have to make it easy for them.
quickslowdown 3y ago
Nobody's giving Facebook a free pass, but this shouldn't be a hard concept to understand. Yes, the fact that TikTok is based on China and has very close ties to their government, one of our adversities,is the problem here. The amount & type data both Facebook & TikTok collect is egregious, but that's not the point of any of this.
- dpkirchner 3y ago
  China is only an adversary if you ignore the hundreds of billions of dollars in trade we have between us. If we were serious about treating China as an adversary or enemy, we'd address trade way before we'd bother with toy sites like TikTok.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > China is only an adversary if you ignore the hundreds of billions of dollars in trade we have between us. If we were serious about treating China as an adversary or enemy, we'd address trade way before we'd bother with toy sites like TikTok. You're trying to make perfect be the enemy of the good. The US and Western countries, for the last several decades, have engaged in a foolish and deluded trade policy with China. It's going to be a long and difficult process to partially undo that mistake. Though is done, they'll never be able to take back the technology, trade secrets, and know-how they let go. Dealing with the TikTok problem is low-hanging fruit, in comparison. You reach for the low-hanging fruit first.
    - dpkirchner 3y ago
      > Dealing with the TikTok problem is low-hanging fruit, in comparison. You reach for the low-hanging fruit first. In this case it appears we're reaching for the low-hanging fruit because it makes easy headlines, has low political risk, and won't change the status quo (Congress won't be successful in their stated goals). It's a distraction from real problems.
      - tivert 3y ago

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

We don't fucking care that Facebook or other US companies do the same. We care when it's a front of the Chinese communist government which is growing more adversarial by the day. If you don't think they're a front of the Chinese government then you haven't been paying attention to the weekly reports on China for the last few years.

mathgradthrow 3y ago

Stop equivocating. Facebook is under US jurisdiction. Tiktok is not.

chimeracoder 3y ago
> Stop equivocating. Facebook is under US jurisdiction. Tiktok is not. This is straight-up factually incorrect.
lost_womble 3y ago
Imagine saying something this wrong this confidently.
- tivert 3y ago
  > Imagine saying something this wrong this confidently. How is it wrong? Are you making a super-big deal that, say, TikTok has some US-registered LLC's or something? What ultimately matters is who owns and controls it, and whose jurisdiction they're under.
jerojero 3y ago
Wasn't Facebook used by russian intelligence to manipulate the 2016 elections? Does it even matter that it's under US jurisdiction if it can be misused by foreign actors without any real consequences? Meta just uses its lobbying to keep itself without harm.

readyman 3y ago

Facebook is used to keep in touch with loved ones. Tik Tok is not. This is a very significant factor in sentiment for one vs the other.

tivert 3y ago

> Focusing on the nationality is a red herring - a US-based company can be just as adversarial as a foreign one. Come on, you can't be serious. Even considered at a pretty abstract and uninformed level, it's clear even the most "adversarial" domestic company would not go places an adversarial foreign company would.

chimeracoder 3y ago
> Even considered at a pretty abstract and uninformed level, it's clear even the most "adversarial" domestic company would not go places an adversarial foreign company would. Between TikTok and Facebook, one has already gone demonstrably further than the other, and it's not TikTok.
- tivert 3y ago
  > Between TikTok and Facebook, one has already gone demonstrably further than the other, and it's not TikTok. This is geopolitics, not criminal law. It's not about what was done, but about what could be done. Whatever specific past actions of Facebook or TikTok that you're vaguely gesturing at don't matter.

bequanna 3y ago

Except it isn't the same. China is a geopolitical foe who is quite serious about espionage. We don't have to make it easy for them.

quickslowdown 3y ago

Nobody's giving Facebook a free pass, but this shouldn't be a hard concept to understand. Yes, the fact that TikTok is based on China and has very close ties to their government, one of our adversities,is the problem here. The amount & type data both Facebook & TikTok collect is egregious, but that's not the point of any of this.

dpkirchner 3y ago
China is only an adversary if you ignore the hundreds of billions of dollars in trade we have between us. If we were serious about treating China as an adversary or enemy, we'd address trade way before we'd bother with toy sites like TikTok.
- tivert 3y ago
  > China is only an adversary if you ignore the hundreds of billions of dollars in trade we have between us. If we were serious about treating China as an adversary or enemy, we'd address trade way before we'd bother with toy sites like TikTok. You're trying to make perfect be the enemy of the good. The US and Western countries, for the last several decades, have engaged in a foolish and deluded trade policy with China. It's going to be a long and difficult process to partially undo that mistake. Though is done, they'll never be able to take back the technology, trade secrets, and know-how they let go. Dealing with the TikTok problem is low-hanging fruit, in comparison. You reach for the low-hanging fruit first.
  - dpkirchner 3y ago
    > Dealing with the TikTok problem is low-hanging fruit, in comparison. You reach for the low-hanging fruit first. In this case it appears we're reaching for the low-hanging fruit because it makes easy headlines, has low political risk, and won't change the status quo (Congress won't be successful in their stated goals). It's a distraction from real problems.
    - tivert 3y ago