5 ms·

The presence of the numberpad plus the absence of physical buttons below the touchpad combo puts this laptop in my personal no buy quadrant. Those are probably

The presence of the numberpad plus the absence of physical buttons below the touchpad combo puts this laptop in my personal no buy quadrant. Those are probably non issues or actually positive features for most people (especially the buttons) but let me promote my preferences. I'm waiting for a touchpad with buttons module for the Framework laptop, then I could buy that laptop.

happymellon 3y ago
Off centred keyboard and touchpad kill it for me. Which is related to the presence of a numberpad. Not that I care about a number pad, but I dislike it making everything to the side of the screen.
- alecsm 3y ago
  That's always the case when there's a numpad so you can easily move your cursor and write without barely moving your hand placement.
- cassepipe 3y ago
  With the Framework 16, you can be both happy... But I don't doubt that you will both find it has other unredeemable flaws :)
  - happymellon 3y ago
    Framework could easily be my next laptop. I love the execution and not just the concept. Unfortunately for them, I have a feeling my current Lenovo Ryzen is going to last me a good few years.
    - jseliger 3y ago
      I don't know your financial situation but a few years is a long time to have a computer you don't like enough. Sell it on eBay and use the funds to get one you do.
      - happymellon 3y ago
        Who says I don't like my current laptop? T14 3rd Gen, AMD Ryzen edition, 32Gb ram. It's significantly faster than my work MacBook Pro after they installed all the bullshit.
  - pmontra 3y ago
    It's the only show stopper for me now. I value those buttons more than the off center keyboard. I slide my laptop 1/3 to the right and keep more windows on the left side of the monitor, where they stay in front of me. Unfortunately there were no 15" laptops with buttons and no numberpad.
- jwells89 3y ago
  Same, moving the alpha cluster off-center drives me crazy not just in laptops, but also on desktop setups. It’s uncomfortable and awkward. Not that people who like numpads shouldn’t also have the option, but it really should be an option. As a sibling comment notes, the Framework 16 does this but traditional laptops ought to do it too. Larger laptops practically always have a numpad though. I think the last ~17” laptop I saw without one was the 17” MBP, which was discontinued over a decade ago.
  - wiredfool 3y ago
    The desktop situation works a lot better if the mouse is on the left and the numpad is on the right. Everything is in balance.
    - pmontra 3y ago
      But 90% of people are right handed and anecdotally all the people I saw using the mouse on the left were left handed.
      - happymellon 3y ago
        I'm left handed, but I use my mouse on the right. A lot of mice are designed for the right hand only, so I got used to it. It's more than 90% of people that this laptop will not work for.
        wiredfool 3y ago
        I switched sides due to RSI issues. Having two mice eased the transition, and since then it’s just been the one on the left.
- jsheard 3y ago
  If only anyone offered laptops with ortholinear keyboards, then you could have centered alphas and a numpad on a layer without it being weirdly aligned. Framework was prototyping an ortho keyboard module but it never came to market.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  I recently went looking for a new keyboard for my PC and there are two things that are instant showstoppers for me. - no tenkey - arrow keys not laid out in a T configuration A close 3rd is trying to cram more than just ctrl/meta(window)/alt keys to the left of the spacebar. preference is a hell of a drug :)
  - happymellon 3y ago
    You are looking for a TKL with the arrow keys in a T formation? I found most TKLs have the arrow keys in the T formation, it's when you get to 65% that they start messing about with the layout. For example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drop-CTRL-High-Profile-Mechanical-Keyboard/dp/B08FKY6BQ2 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drop-CTRL-High-Profile-Mechanical-K...
shrubble 3y ago
When I was messing around with the Acme editor from Plan9 I found the 3 physical buttons on the Dell Latitude series and old Thinkpads, very much to my liking.
ori_b 3y ago
For me personally, I want off the Thinkpad train, but I don't think I can get a new laptop with a trackpoint, 3 physical buttons, and a good high-res matte screen elsewhere right now.
- Symmetry 3y ago
  I'd always assumed that once the big Trackpoint patents expired you'd see a lot more of them. But nope.
- 5- 3y ago
  i'm using the x2100 which arguably doesn't fit your desiderata around 'new' and 'not thinkpad' depending on which way you look at it, but otherwise is sadly the best available option in this segment. - reasonably good (but aging) motherboard -- 10th gen intel, 64gb ddr4, pcie3 nvme. - great 3000x2000 13" screen. i just put a matte screen protector (ordered custom cut to measure) and it's way better than many off-the-shelf matte screens - fabulous keyboard. not mechanical but so much better than any chiclet. - trackpoint. i've put in the touchpadless palm rest just for style points. i really wish someone would produce a comparable 'actually new' laptop for when i'm upgrading, but the outlook isn't good.
GenerWork 3y ago
>I'm waiting for a touchpad with buttons module for the Framework laptop, then I could buy that laptop. Why don't you look into making that yourself, or finding other people who want that kind of touchpad and then contracting with someone/a company who could then make that?
- pmontra 3y ago
  I could buy a dead laptop like mine with a 3 buttons touchpad, extract the component and try to arrange it into the Framework, which I have to buy first and not use until (if!) I make the touchpad work. It takes some prior research on dimensions, connectors and drivers. So many things could go wrong and I'm not sure I have the time and the knowledge to get started. If I involve a company it's going to cost a lot of money. If somebody kickstarters it I'll support the project.
ktosobcy 3y ago
Uhm... after using MBP for a couple of years now, each time I have to deal with touchpad with physical keys annoys me...
sva_ 3y ago
To me, 'tap to click' mode is much better, as it is not necessary to have a finger on the button. But it really comes down to personal preference, I guess.

happymellon 3y ago

Off centred keyboard and touchpad kill it for me. Which is related to the presence of a numberpad. Not that I care about a number pad, but I dislike it making everything to the side of the screen.

alecsm 3y ago
That's always the case when there's a numpad so you can easily move your cursor and write without barely moving your hand placement.
cassepipe 3y ago
With the Framework 16, you can be both happy... But I don't doubt that you will both find it has other unredeemable flaws :)
- happymellon 3y ago
  Framework could easily be my next laptop. I love the execution and not just the concept. Unfortunately for them, I have a feeling my current Lenovo Ryzen is going to last me a good few years.
  - jseliger 3y ago
    I don't know your financial situation but a few years is a long time to have a computer you don't like enough. Sell it on eBay and use the funds to get one you do.
    - happymellon 3y ago
      Who says I don't like my current laptop? T14 3rd Gen, AMD Ryzen edition, 32Gb ram. It's significantly faster than my work MacBook Pro after they installed all the bullshit.
- pmontra 3y ago
  It's the only show stopper for me now. I value those buttons more than the off center keyboard. I slide my laptop 1/3 to the right and keep more windows on the left side of the monitor, where they stay in front of me. Unfortunately there were no 15" laptops with buttons and no numberpad.
jwells89 3y ago
Same, moving the alpha cluster off-center drives me crazy not just in laptops, but also on desktop setups. It’s uncomfortable and awkward. Not that people who like numpads shouldn’t also have the option, but it really should be an option. As a sibling comment notes, the Framework 16 does this but traditional laptops ought to do it too. Larger laptops practically always have a numpad though. I think the last ~17” laptop I saw without one was the 17” MBP, which was discontinued over a decade ago.
- wiredfool 3y ago
  The desktop situation works a lot better if the mouse is on the left and the numpad is on the right. Everything is in balance.
  - pmontra 3y ago
    But 90% of people are right handed and anecdotally all the people I saw using the mouse on the left were left handed.
    - happymellon 3y ago
      I'm left handed, but I use my mouse on the right. A lot of mice are designed for the right hand only, so I got used to it. It's more than 90% of people that this laptop will not work for.
      - wiredfool 3y ago
        I switched sides due to RSI issues. Having two mice eased the transition, and since then it’s just been the one on the left.
jsheard 3y ago
If only anyone offered laptops with ortholinear keyboards, then you could have centered alphas and a numpad on a layer without it being weirdly aligned. Framework was prototyping an ortho keyboard module but it never came to market.
PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
I recently went looking for a new keyboard for my PC and there are two things that are instant showstoppers for me. - no tenkey - arrow keys not laid out in a T configuration A close 3rd is trying to cram more than just ctrl/meta(window)/alt keys to the left of the spacebar. preference is a hell of a drug :)
- happymellon 3y ago
  You are looking for a TKL with the arrow keys in a T formation? I found most TKLs have the arrow keys in the T formation, it's when you get to 65% that they start messing about with the layout. For example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drop-CTRL-High-Profile-Mechanical-Keyboard/dp/B08FKY6BQ2 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drop-CTRL-High-Profile-Mechanical-K...

shrubble 3y ago

When I was messing around with the Acme editor from Plan9 I found the 3 physical buttons on the Dell Latitude series and old Thinkpads, very much to my liking.

ori_b 3y ago

For me personally, I want off the Thinkpad train, but I don't think I can get a new laptop with a trackpoint, 3 physical buttons, and a good high-res matte screen elsewhere right now.

Symmetry 3y ago
I'd always assumed that once the big Trackpoint patents expired you'd see a lot more of them. But nope.
5- 3y ago
i'm using the x2100 which arguably doesn't fit your desiderata around 'new' and 'not thinkpad' depending on which way you look at it, but otherwise is sadly the best available option in this segment. - reasonably good (but aging) motherboard -- 10th gen intel, 64gb ddr4, pcie3 nvme. - great 3000x2000 13" screen. i just put a matte screen protector (ordered custom cut to measure) and it's way better than many off-the-shelf matte screens - fabulous keyboard. not mechanical but so much better than any chiclet. - trackpoint. i've put in the touchpadless palm rest just for style points. i really wish someone would produce a comparable 'actually new' laptop for when i'm upgrading, but the outlook isn't good.

GenerWork 3y ago

>I'm waiting for a touchpad with buttons module for the Framework laptop, then I could buy that laptop. Why don't you look into making that yourself, or finding other people who want that kind of touchpad and then contracting with someone/a company who could then make that?

pmontra 3y ago
I could buy a dead laptop like mine with a 3 buttons touchpad, extract the component and try to arrange it into the Framework, which I have to buy first and not use until (if!) I make the touchpad work. It takes some prior research on dimensions, connectors and drivers. So many things could go wrong and I'm not sure I have the time and the knowledge to get started. If I involve a company it's going to cost a lot of money. If somebody kickstarters it I'll support the project.

ktosobcy 3y ago

Uhm... after using MBP for a couple of years now, each time I have to deal with touchpad with physical keys annoys me...

sva_ 3y ago

To me, 'tap to click' mode is much better, as it is not necessary to have a finger on the button. But it really comes down to personal preference, I guess.