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The way you make an addictive anything: * Random, variable rewards, with the possibility for really great rewards. * In as many different ways as you can feas

The way you make an addictive anything: * Random, variable rewards, with the possibility for really great rewards. * In as many different ways as you can feasibly include. * Optimise for 'near-misses', which have been shown to increase the addictive properties.

brigadier132 3y ago
> Random, variable rewards, with the possibility for really great rewards The more I've thought about it, the more I realize that variable reward is a key component of fun. All of the most fun and successful games have it built in, even if you don't realize it. Does it have ranked match making? That's variable reward. Why do you think online chess is so popular now? The ranked match making gives you just enough wins to keep you hooked.
- guyomes 3y ago
  > I realize that variable reward is a key component of fun Actually, Roger Caillois wrote a famous book on the different forms of play [1]. He uses four forms of play to classify games, and the one you are referring to is chance (Alea in his book). Another form of play that applies more accurately to chess is competition (Agon in his book). He also emphases two other key components of fun: playing a role (Mimicry) and physical sensations like in a roller coaster (Ilinx). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man,_Play_and_Games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man,_Play_and_Games
  - brigadier132 3y ago
    > Another form of play that applies more accurately to chess is competition In my personal experience in competition if you are only losing or only winning it's not fun. I think competition is variable reward dressed up.
    - guyomes 3y ago
      I understand how competition can be seen as variable reward dressed up. On the other hand, in an attempt to classify games, separating the two components competition and chance is still useful. I think that chance is to be understood as a component completely independent of the player's skills. This allows to distinguish competitive games such as chess (competion with skills) and yahtzee (competition with chance) for example.
      - brigadier132 3y ago
        Even competitions of chance have skill components (unless they are completely random) and competitions of skill have chance components (who do you get matched against). Even in chess, two players playing against eachother will not always have the same outcome, it's not completely deterministic.

brigadier132 3y ago

> Random, variable rewards, with the possibility for really great rewards The more I've thought about it, the more I realize that variable reward is a key component of fun. All of the most fun and successful games have it built in, even if you don't realize it. Does it have ranked match making? That's variable reward. Why do you think online chess is so popular now? The ranked match making gives you just enough wins to keep you hooked.

guyomes 3y ago
> I realize that variable reward is a key component of fun Actually, Roger Caillois wrote a famous book on the different forms of play [1]. He uses four forms of play to classify games, and the one you are referring to is chance (Alea in his book). Another form of play that applies more accurately to chess is competition (Agon in his book). He also emphases two other key components of fun: playing a role (Mimicry) and physical sensations like in a roller coaster (Ilinx). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man,_Play_and_Games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man,_Play_and_Games
- brigadier132 3y ago
  > Another form of play that applies more accurately to chess is competition In my personal experience in competition if you are only losing or only winning it's not fun. I think competition is variable reward dressed up.
  - guyomes 3y ago
    I understand how competition can be seen as variable reward dressed up. On the other hand, in an attempt to classify games, separating the two components competition and chance is still useful. I think that chance is to be understood as a component completely independent of the player's skills. This allows to distinguish competitive games such as chess (competion with skills) and yahtzee (competition with chance) for example.
    - brigadier132 3y ago
      Even competitions of chance have skill components (unless they are completely random) and competitions of skill have chance components (who do you get matched against). Even in chess, two players playing against eachother will not always have the same outcome, it's not completely deterministic.