4 ms·

Why do (mostly Americans) always make this out to be an EU vs. US thing? This is about getting large companies to stop abusing their market dominance. If anyth

by ginko 3y ago

Why do (mostly Americans) always make this out to be an EU vs. US thing? This is about getting large companies to stop abusing their market dominance. If anything people in the US should be glad the EU is doing this, since it might also benefit them in the long term.

cryptonym 3y ago
Agree. That rhetoric is mostly used to defend multi-bilions companies, even when that's against consumer and market interest.
soco 3y ago
Why do people criticize the idea of unionizing? Why do people defend any action of big companies? Why do dictators have followers? Why do people act against their own interest? There are entire sciences dedicated to answering this...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bryanrasmussen 3y ago
Well relatively a lot of people on HN have worked at big tech companies, hope to work there in the future, or are currently working there - anyone matching one of those criteria might be more inclined to view it as an EU vs. U.S thing and arguing that it is the EU being mad because they can't make any of that U.S big tech magic happen in their area.
- gpderetta 3y ago
  Wait, are you saying that all HN readers are temporarily embarrassed FAANG employees? ... that actually tracks pretty well.
  - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
    No not all, but if say 10% were that would still explain a lot.
nottorp 3y ago
There's a strong "large" fetish which I think is mostly an US cultural problem. It probably started with public companies not paying dividends and instead rewarding the shareholders by share price increases. This means they have to grow indefinitely. The logical outcome is having one all-encompassing monopoly that handles everything. Kinda like a state economy, but they don't get the irony.
dns_snek 3y ago
Part of the reason seems to be that a significant chunk of them have apparently forgotten that antitrust laws and enforcement are hard requirements for capitalism to actually work and deliver on any of its touted benefits. Unregulated free market capitalism that so many people seem to root for (knowingly or unknowingly) is just a degenerate version of the system that invariably results in cartels, price-fixing, rent seeking, thought policing, human exploitation and suffering, which is really just a different version of the "communist" boogeyman that they fear for the same reasons.
- nickpp 3y ago
  Is that why in the free market capitalism the shelves were overflowing were people are spoiled for choice while in communist countries people were starving and being killed while trying to leave?
  - RandomLensman 3y ago
    Where in the world is it anywhere close to "free market capitalism" at scale? Most economies have a vast number of regulations on markets, products, capital, labor, ... Heck, limited liability corporations can only exist because laws make them possible.
hx833001 3y ago
Many Americans do not like foreign governments attempting to take control of American corporations by government fiat. For instance, the EU insisting they can steal money from Apple based on its global revenue, rather than EU revenue, is obscene.
- seszett 3y ago
  > the EU insisting they can steal money from Apple based on its global revenue, rather than EU revenue, is obscene. To be clear, fining is not stealing except in some kind of liberal dystopian fantasy. And fining based on global revenue is necessary because it's all too easy otherwise to artificially shift revenue between various places to evade these kind of fines. The fine is limited by law to 10% of global revenue, and the EU market is more than 10% of Apple's revenue, so there's nothing particularly egregious here. Also, obviously Apple is not forced to do business in the EU if they don't like the rules.
  - rblatz 3y ago
    Profit and expenses can be shifted. I’m not aware of how they can shift revenue.
  - hx833001 3y ago
    You can attempt to justify this bureaucratic overreach to yourself if you wish, but an American company should not have its global revenue taxed by foreign governments. Future American administrations more interested in protecting American profits will ensure this is the case.
    - ginko 3y ago
      This is not a tax it's a fine. Many countries have fines relative to the income of the perpetrator. If you get caught speeding as a tourist in Norway do you expect to get away without having to pay anything since you don't have an income in Norway?

by ginko 3y ago

cryptonym 3y ago

Agree. That rhetoric is mostly used to defend multi-bilions companies, even when that's against consumer and market interest.

soco 3y ago

Why do people criticize the idea of unionizing? Why do people defend any action of big companies? Why do dictators have followers? Why do people act against their own interest? There are entire sciences dedicated to answering this...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bryanrasmussen 3y ago

Well relatively a lot of people on HN have worked at big tech companies, hope to work there in the future, or are currently working there - anyone matching one of those criteria might be more inclined to view it as an EU vs. U.S thing and arguing that it is the EU being mad because they can't make any of that U.S big tech magic happen in their area.

gpderetta 3y ago
Wait, are you saying that all HN readers are temporarily embarrassed FAANG employees? ... that actually tracks pretty well.
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago
  No not all, but if say 10% were that would still explain a lot.

nottorp 3y ago

There's a strong "large" fetish which I think is mostly an US cultural problem. It probably started with public companies not paying dividends and instead rewarding the shareholders by share price increases. This means they have to grow indefinitely. The logical outcome is having one all-encompassing monopoly that handles everything. Kinda like a state economy, but they don't get the irony.

dns_snek 3y ago

Part of the reason seems to be that a significant chunk of them have apparently forgotten that antitrust laws and enforcement are hard requirements for capitalism to actually work and deliver on any of its touted benefits. Unregulated free market capitalism that so many people seem to root for (knowingly or unknowingly) is just a degenerate version of the system that invariably results in cartels, price-fixing, rent seeking, thought policing, human exploitation and suffering, which is really just a different version of the "communist" boogeyman that they fear for the same reasons.

nickpp 3y ago
Is that why in the free market capitalism the shelves were overflowing were people are spoiled for choice while in communist countries people were starving and being killed while trying to leave?
- RandomLensman 3y ago
  Where in the world is it anywhere close to "free market capitalism" at scale? Most economies have a vast number of regulations on markets, products, capital, labor, ... Heck, limited liability corporations can only exist because laws make them possible.

hx833001 3y ago

Many Americans do not like foreign governments attempting to take control of American corporations by government fiat. For instance, the EU insisting they can steal money from Apple based on its global revenue, rather than EU revenue, is obscene.

seszett 3y ago
> the EU insisting they can steal money from Apple based on its global revenue, rather than EU revenue, is obscene. To be clear, fining is not stealing except in some kind of liberal dystopian fantasy. And fining based on global revenue is necessary because it's all too easy otherwise to artificially shift revenue between various places to evade these kind of fines. The fine is limited by law to 10% of global revenue, and the EU market is more than 10% of Apple's revenue, so there's nothing particularly egregious here. Also, obviously Apple is not forced to do business in the EU if they don't like the rules.
- rblatz 3y ago
  Profit and expenses can be shifted. I’m not aware of how they can shift revenue.
- hx833001 3y ago
  You can attempt to justify this bureaucratic overreach to yourself if you wish, but an American company should not have its global revenue taxed by foreign governments. Future American administrations more interested in protecting American profits will ensure this is the case.
  - ginko 3y ago
    This is not a tax it's a fine. Many countries have fines relative to the income of the perpetrator. If you get caught speeding as a tourist in Norway do you expect to get away without having to pay anything since you don't have an income in Norway?