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IIUC this is a deliberate act of aggression by Apple - which is important to note. Apple already has regional accounts, so the infrastructure for this is in pla

by klabb3 3y ago

IIUC this is a deliberate act of aggression by Apple - which is important to note. Apple already has regional accounts, so the infrastructure for this is in place already, for preexisting reasons. My Apple ID is still within US after months of being in the EU. They have not “kicked me out” yet. There’s no other way than to interpret this, and the preceding actions by Apple, as a temper tantrum of malicious compliance. That begs a whole new set of questions. Optically, this is the behavior you’d expect from companies that stopped innovating and are clinging onto power with the power of lawyers. It seems like an incredibly small hill to sacrifice your reputation on. Are their long term ambitions to live off the 30% cut? Because it sure as hell appears like they’re fighting an existential battle, which doesn’t inspire confidence in their visionary leadership. Perhaps the best thing for Apple is to take away their comfort blanket, so they’re setting sights on innovation again.

paulpan 3y ago
It's crystal clear that Apple is trying to protect its Services revenue, which just grew 11% and hit a new record last quarter at $23.1B (https://www.statista.com/statistics/250918/apples-revenue-from-itunes-software-and-services/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/250918/apples-revenue-fr...). Services is becoming its lone growth segment. Otherwise why go through the additional overhead and headache of implementing region-specific rules? iOS is becoming branched into 3 forks: EU, China, and rest of the world.
wolpoli 3y ago
It sounds like someone in Apple is burning the corporate brand to make their division's target because the target wasn't adjusted in the face of the law. Leadership at the top is at fault.
- lancesells 3y ago
  Apple is showing it's true colors here, and it's not the joyful rainbow of the past.
- klabb3 3y ago
  Yes, but the concerning thing is that this behavior you’d expect from Oracle or similar. The App Store, in-app payments etc is not bad – Apple would seem to be able to compete fairly and still win a big slice of the cake – higher prices but premium experience, like they’ve always done. So.. have they stopped believing in themselves? Or did the sweet taste of monopoly turn them greedy and arrogant beyond salvation in just a decade?
  - wolpoli 3y ago
    Being the market leader, Apple sets the ground rule in the market in way that makes Apple wildly profitable. However, the regulators are striking at the heart of these rules, and Apple seem intend to use its technological controls to minimize the impact of the regulators, rather than just accepting the change and move on. The issue for Apple is that the above generates bad press against Apple which is going to erode away the brand, and the regulators might end up issuing more rules anyway.
charcircuit 3y ago
It's just the reality of global compliance that products end up having to be customized for each region. We were lucky for a while that China was the only country that was overly special, but that time is over. If you want an existing example of a phone changing stuff as you change countries just look at the modem. Different territories allow for different amounts of power to be used and the phone as has to know the laws to and adapt based off where it is in order to be compliant.
wilde 3y ago
Apple has always been litigious and petty. We just looked the other way when they were innovating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electronics_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electron.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Micros....
gruez 3y ago
>[...]this is a deliberate act of aggression by Apple [...] >There’s no other way than to interpret this, and the preceding actions by Apple, as a temper tantrum of malicious compliance [...] While it's pretty clear that most people here would have liked it if Apple rolled out third party app stores to everyone and were hoping that EU regulations would extend to non-EU users (like with USB-C charging port standard), the reality of the situation is that EU jurisdiction ends at EU borders. Apple is complying with the laws exactly, and characterizing it as "aggression" or "temper tantrum" is closer to name calling than any sort of cogent argument. Chinese regulations require Apple to store iCloud data in Chinese data centers. Apple complies with this for only Chinese users. Should this also be characterized as "aggression" or "temper tantrum"? What's the difference between these two cases beyond "I like third party app stores" and "I hate my data stored in the hands of an authoritarian regime"?
- em-bee 3y ago
  i travel a lot. and that means, i sometimes leave my home for months at a time. more than 30 days. when roaming with a chinese sim card, all my traffic keeps going through china, regardless how long i leave the country. so for practical purposes, it is like i never left the country. but if i use an EU sim, suddenly after 30 days i am no longer considered to be part of the EU? as an EU citizen? how does that make any sense? EU laws should apply as long as i use a EU sim card, regardless how long i am outside of the country. only when i switch sims, then i find it acceptable to say that EU law should no longer apply to my phone.
  - tmottabr 3y ago
    When using a EU sim your traffic will still go trough the EU server. But the EU laws stop applying at the border. The third-party stores are there because of a EU law that does not apply on any other country. If they wanted they could make the store stop working the minute you step out of the EU and they would still be following the law.
    - Brian_K_White 3y ago

by klabb3 3y ago

paulpan 3y ago

It's crystal clear that Apple is trying to protect its Services revenue, which just grew 11% and hit a new record last quarter at $23.1B (https://www.statista.com/statistics/250918/apples-revenue-from-itunes-software-and-services/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/250918/apples-revenue-fr...). Services is becoming its lone growth segment. Otherwise why go through the additional overhead and headache of implementing region-specific rules? iOS is becoming branched into 3 forks: EU, China, and rest of the world.

wolpoli 3y ago

It sounds like someone in Apple is burning the corporate brand to make their division's target because the target wasn't adjusted in the face of the law. Leadership at the top is at fault.

lancesells 3y ago
Apple is showing it's true colors here, and it's not the joyful rainbow of the past.
klabb3 3y ago
Yes, but the concerning thing is that this behavior you’d expect from Oracle or similar. The App Store, in-app payments etc is not bad – Apple would seem to be able to compete fairly and still win a big slice of the cake – higher prices but premium experience, like they’ve always done. So.. have they stopped believing in themselves? Or did the sweet taste of monopoly turn them greedy and arrogant beyond salvation in just a decade?
- wolpoli 3y ago
  Being the market leader, Apple sets the ground rule in the market in way that makes Apple wildly profitable. However, the regulators are striking at the heart of these rules, and Apple seem intend to use its technological controls to minimize the impact of the regulators, rather than just accepting the change and move on. The issue for Apple is that the above generates bad press against Apple which is going to erode away the brand, and the regulators might end up issuing more rules anyway.

charcircuit 3y ago

It's just the reality of global compliance that products end up having to be customized for each region. We were lucky for a while that China was the only country that was overly special, but that time is over. If you want an existing example of a phone changing stuff as you change countries just look at the modem. Different territories allow for different amounts of power to be used and the phone as has to know the laws to and adapt based off where it is in order to be compliant.

wilde 3y ago

Apple has always been litigious and petty. We just looked the other way when they were innovating. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electronics_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electron.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Micros....

gruez 3y ago

>[...]this is a deliberate act of aggression by Apple [...] >There’s no other way than to interpret this, and the preceding actions by Apple, as a temper tantrum of malicious compliance [...] While it's pretty clear that most people here would have liked it if Apple rolled out third party app stores to everyone and were hoping that EU regulations would extend to non-EU users (like with USB-C charging port standard), the reality of the situation is that EU jurisdiction ends at EU borders. Apple is complying with the laws exactly, and characterizing it as "aggression" or "temper tantrum" is closer to name calling than any sort of cogent argument. Chinese regulations require Apple to store iCloud data in Chinese data centers. Apple complies with this for only Chinese users. Should this also be characterized as "aggression" or "temper tantrum"? What's the difference between these two cases beyond "I like third party app stores" and "I hate my data stored in the hands of an authoritarian regime"?

em-bee 3y ago
i travel a lot. and that means, i sometimes leave my home for months at a time. more than 30 days. when roaming with a chinese sim card, all my traffic keeps going through china, regardless how long i leave the country. so for practical purposes, it is like i never left the country. but if i use an EU sim, suddenly after 30 days i am no longer considered to be part of the EU? as an EU citizen? how does that make any sense? EU laws should apply as long as i use a EU sim card, regardless how long i am outside of the country. only when i switch sims, then i find it acceptable to say that EU law should no longer apply to my phone.
- tmottabr 3y ago
  When using a EU sim your traffic will still go trough the EU server. But the EU laws stop applying at the border. The third-party stores are there because of a EU law that does not apply on any other country. If they wanted they could make the store stop working the minute you step out of the EU and they would still be following the law.
  - Brian_K_White 3y ago