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The Start button is (or at least used to be) a Window. And in the first Release of they forgot to remove the window control menu - the thing that opens/used to

The Start button is (or at least used to be) a Window. And in the first Release of they forgot to remove the window control menu - the thing that opens/used to open when you click the program icon on the top left corner. Obviously there was no program icon to click, but you could use a shortcut to open it. Then you could select "move" and move the start button on the task bar or even close it. After you closed it, it was gone and you had to kill explorer.exe via task manager and restart it, to get it back. I can't remember the shortcut, it must have been something like alt+-. In older programs this menu is still around and you can still use it to close programs, like you did in Windows 3.1 days. Even doubleclicking the icon in the top left corner still works to close those programs.

ale42 3y ago
As far as I remember, Alt+- opens the menu of an MDI child window. For the current window (which is generally more useful, MDI applications being very rare these days), it's Alt+Space as mentioned by several people.
ankurdhama 3y ago
I still use the window menu shortcut Alt+space and then C to close the window, it is more easy to press compare to Alt+f4 (such a non-ergonomic key combination, compare to macOS cmd+w)
- WorldMaker 3y ago
  Ctrl+Q works in most (though yes, certainly not consistently all) Windows applications. Cmd+Q is also what you'd use on macOS to quit an entire application (Cmd+W is close single window), so the cross-platform ergonomics/muscle memory are actually somewhat preserved. Most Windows applications that still use MDI for some reason or that have tabbed browsing interfaces (appropriately) generally use Ctrl+W for window or tab closing, respectively.
toast0 3y ago
> I can't remember the shortcut, it must have been something like alt+-. It's alt+SPACE. Very handy if you manage to get a window off screen, you that menu almost always shows up on screen, and you can select Move (possibly by hitting m), and then move (or drag) your mouse and the window comes back.
- omnibrain 3y ago
  > It's alt+SPACE. Maybe, but I just tried it and it seems to open some type of search. > Very handy if you manage to get a window off screen, you that menu almost always shows up on screen, and you can select Move (possibly by hitting m), and then move (or drag) your mouse and the window comes back. I used to use it exactly for this, but it seems like they fixed something in the past 10 years, because that does no longer happen for me. I think the last time it happened was in the Windows 7 days. That's probably also why I forgot the shortcut. I still use the double click in the top left corner to close windows, but they kill that for more and more programs. For some time it still worked for some programs with reduced chrome, like tabbed browsers, when I clicked on a few of the blank pixels in the top left corner.
  - Stratoscope 3y ago
    > > It's alt+SPACE. > Maybe, but I just tried it and it seems to open some type of search. That's because you installed PowerToys, and the PowerToys Run module takes over the Alt+Space key combo. This really pissed me off the first time I wanted to use Alt+Space to rescue an offscreen window and I had no idea what this search box was. It's a real problem with the kids who maintain Windows today and the "modern" Windows apps. They just don't know, and don't care, what the classical keyboard shortcuts are and how important they can be. Here is one example of a GitHub issue that was closed as "wontfix": https://github.com/microsoft/PowerToys/issues/13860 https://github.com/microsoft/PowerToys/issues/13860 You can fix this by changing the "activation shortcut" for Run in the PowerToys Settings, or by disabling PowerToys Run entirely. I changed it to Win+Alt+Space and now Alt+Space works like it always has. Also, 'toast0' left out an important step in their description. You need to press Alt+Space, then M, and then any cursor key, and finally you can use the mouse to move the window.
Dwedit 3y ago
The start button is still a window, but it's not a top-level window. It's a child window of the taskbar. And has been so since Windows 95.
- ankurdhama 3y ago
  Not anymore. On Windows 11 you can use spy++ to check the taskbar window and it will show up a single window and everything inside it, start button or program buttons, all are not a window. This seems to be the case for any app that is using <whatever is the new windows app framework>.
barrkel 3y ago
Anything in Windows that could get keyboard focus basically had to be a window. If you could tab to it, window.

ale42 3y ago

As far as I remember, Alt+- opens the menu of an MDI child window. For the current window (which is generally more useful, MDI applications being very rare these days), it's Alt+Space as mentioned by several people.

ankurdhama 3y ago

I still use the window menu shortcut Alt+space and then C to close the window, it is more easy to press compare to Alt+f4 (such a non-ergonomic key combination, compare to macOS cmd+w)

WorldMaker 3y ago
Ctrl+Q works in most (though yes, certainly not consistently all) Windows applications. Cmd+Q is also what you'd use on macOS to quit an entire application (Cmd+W is close single window), so the cross-platform ergonomics/muscle memory are actually somewhat preserved. Most Windows applications that still use MDI for some reason or that have tabbed browsing interfaces (appropriately) generally use Ctrl+W for window or tab closing, respectively.

toast0 3y ago

> I can't remember the shortcut, it must have been something like alt+-. It's alt+SPACE. Very handy if you manage to get a window off screen, you that menu almost always shows up on screen, and you can select Move (possibly by hitting m), and then move (or drag) your mouse and the window comes back.

omnibrain 3y ago
> It's alt+SPACE. Maybe, but I just tried it and it seems to open some type of search. > Very handy if you manage to get a window off screen, you that menu almost always shows up on screen, and you can select Move (possibly by hitting m), and then move (or drag) your mouse and the window comes back. I used to use it exactly for this, but it seems like they fixed something in the past 10 years, because that does no longer happen for me. I think the last time it happened was in the Windows 7 days. That's probably also why I forgot the shortcut. I still use the double click in the top left corner to close windows, but they kill that for more and more programs. For some time it still worked for some programs with reduced chrome, like tabbed browsers, when I clicked on a few of the blank pixels in the top left corner.
- Stratoscope 3y ago
  > > It's alt+SPACE. > Maybe, but I just tried it and it seems to open some type of search. That's because you installed PowerToys, and the PowerToys Run module takes over the Alt+Space key combo. This really pissed me off the first time I wanted to use Alt+Space to rescue an offscreen window and I had no idea what this search box was. It's a real problem with the kids who maintain Windows today and the "modern" Windows apps. They just don't know, and don't care, what the classical keyboard shortcuts are and how important they can be. Here is one example of a GitHub issue that was closed as "wontfix": https://github.com/microsoft/PowerToys/issues/13860 https://github.com/microsoft/PowerToys/issues/13860 You can fix this by changing the "activation shortcut" for Run in the PowerToys Settings, or by disabling PowerToys Run entirely. I changed it to Win+Alt+Space and now Alt+Space works like it always has. Also, 'toast0' left out an important step in their description. You need to press Alt+Space, then M, and then any cursor key, and finally you can use the mouse to move the window.

Dwedit 3y ago

The start button is still a window, but it's not a top-level window. It's a child window of the taskbar. And has been so since Windows 95.

ankurdhama 3y ago
Not anymore. On Windows 11 you can use spy++ to check the taskbar window and it will show up a single window and everything inside it, start button or program buttons, all are not a window. This seems to be the case for any app that is using <whatever is the new windows app framework>.

barrkel 3y ago

Anything in Windows that could get keyboard focus basically had to be a window. If you could tab to it, window.