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I don't think a healthy government should be deciding what software we install. I think a healthy government should be enforcing monopoly laws and data portabil

I don't think a healthy government should be deciding what software we install. I think a healthy government should be enforcing monopoly laws and data portability laws that would have fostered the growth of a TikTok-like in the USA. If we had a healthy ecosystem of interconnected platforms and laws that worked to counter the extreme network effects of social media platforms we wouldn't have to worry about a major content stream getting piped through our largest geopolitical rival.

totaldex 3y ago
What sorts of "healthy laws" would you suggest the government pass to curb TikTok specifically?
core-utility 3y ago
They're not deciding what software we install, did you read the article? The bill would require ByteDance (TikTok's parent company) to stop sending all this user data to China where it is ultimately used by the CCP. I'd argue that this bill doesn't go far enough, and companies of a certain size should be required to home US citizen data in the US, where it's subject to our laws and regulations.
- logicchains 3y ago
  Did you read the article? Bytedance isn't just required to stop sending all data to China, it's required to divest itself of Chinese ownership.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > Did you read the article? Bytedance isn't just required to stop sending all data to China, it's required to divest itself of Chinese ownership. Which makes sense. Do you really want an entity with the demonstrated capability to coordinate mass political action (i.e. this TikTok popup) to be under the influence of the Chinese Communist Party? It's like if Putin owned Facebook.
riskable 3y ago
The problem with your idealist view here is that an individual or even a big corporation can't compete with an entire country. Douyin (Chinese version of TikTok) was subsidized and promoted by the Chinese government. Even a rich American corporation can't compete with a government that heavily controls which apps their users are allowed to use (the problem you're talking about). Once the (addiction-tuned) algorithms were mastered and the back end was nice and stable ByteDance made their Westernized version for the rest of the world, TikTok. Again, subsidized and promoted by the Chinese government. A lot of people are worried about the data collection but I don't think that's as big a deal of having control over the algorithms. If the Chinese government says, "promote this" to ByteDance it gets promoted (can they realistically say no?). It could be propaganda, competitors of people they don't like, or similar. If they say, "get rid of this content/these users" it all but disappears. The US government can't control media like that (and is explicitly barred from doing so). They can ask for such things (as nicely as possible) but that's it. Because of the popularity of TikTok it has an extremely powerful influence over millions of Americans. Is it in the US's best interests to allow that level of control to persist? The fact that so many people called up these Congressmen because of a pop-up in the app is really strong evidence of the sort of propaganda they can distribute and the level of control and influence they can have (indirectly) over the US government. It's not a good situation. Perhaps a bill that says something like, "It must not be possible for foreign governments to influence algorithms or target specific users or categories of users with propaganda" might be in order. I know that's a tall order but there are a number of low-bar steps that can be taken to prevent or at least slow down such foreign government shenanigans.

totaldex 3y ago

What sorts of "healthy laws" would you suggest the government pass to curb TikTok specifically?

core-utility 3y ago

They're not deciding what software we install, did you read the article? The bill would require ByteDance (TikTok's parent company) to stop sending all this user data to China where it is ultimately used by the CCP. I'd argue that this bill doesn't go far enough, and companies of a certain size should be required to home US citizen data in the US, where it's subject to our laws and regulations.

logicchains 3y ago
Did you read the article? Bytedance isn't just required to stop sending all data to China, it's required to divest itself of Chinese ownership.
- tivert 3y ago
  > Did you read the article? Bytedance isn't just required to stop sending all data to China, it's required to divest itself of Chinese ownership. Which makes sense. Do you really want an entity with the demonstrated capability to coordinate mass political action (i.e. this TikTok popup) to be under the influence of the Chinese Communist Party? It's like if Putin owned Facebook.

riskable 3y ago

The problem with your idealist view here is that an individual or even a big corporation can't compete with an entire country. Douyin (Chinese version of TikTok) was subsidized and promoted by the Chinese government. Even a rich American corporation can't compete with a government that heavily controls which apps their users are allowed to use (the problem you're talking about). Once the (addiction-tuned) algorithms were mastered and the back end was nice and stable ByteDance made their Westernized version for the rest of the world, TikTok. Again, subsidized and promoted by the Chinese government. A lot of people are worried about the data collection but I don't think that's as big a deal of having control over the algorithms. If the Chinese government says, "promote this" to ByteDance it gets promoted (can they realistically say no?). It could be propaganda, competitors of people they don't like, or similar. If they say, "get rid of this content/these users" it all but disappears. The US government can't control media like that (and is explicitly barred from doing so). They can ask for such things (as nicely as possible) but that's it. Because of the popularity of TikTok it has an extremely powerful influence over millions of Americans. Is it in the US's best interests to allow that level of control to persist? The fact that so many people called up these Congressmen because of a pop-up in the app is really strong evidence of the sort of propaganda they can distribute and the level of control and influence they can have (indirectly) over the US government. It's not a good situation. Perhaps a bill that says something like, "It must not be possible for foreign governments to influence algorithms or target specific users or categories of users with propaganda" might be in order. I know that's a tall order but there are a number of low-bar steps that can be taken to prevent or at least slow down such foreign government shenanigans.