20 ms·

The SIM-less Phone Is Coming. And It Should Scare The Shit Out Of You

126 points by edent 15y ago

mindjiver 15y ago
A SIM-less network will have to developed sooner or later. If we are to connect n * 10 billion devices to the mobile network the amount of gold used for the SIM cards will become an issue. So removing the need for a SIM, and thus the gold used, will be neccessity. But most likely this will be driven through the "normal" standardization committees (3GPP etc) instead of coming from Apple.
46Bit 15y ago
The title doesn't match up with what the article admits: that for the time being it was rejected by the carriers.
- TazeTSchnitzel 15y ago
  It's only a matter of time, though, unless regulators step in.
  - martey 15y ago
    I am confused about why regulators should be involved. The purpose of the ETSI is to create mobile industry standards. I think the author would argue that these benefit the consumer. The main issue with the article isn't its hyperbolic headline, but the fact that the author implies that Apple is introducting their nano-SIM design in order to further lock down devices, when their design is actually more backwards compatible than the ones submitted by Nokia and RIM: http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/26/2904153/apple-vs-nokia-4ff-nano-sim/in/2666951 http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/26/2904153/apple-vs-nokia-4ff...
    - edent 15y ago
      (I'm the author) I don't think that the nano-SIM is going to lock down devices any more than the micro-SIM. I'm saying that while everyone is battling it out over that standard, Apple will introduce their "Virtual SIM". Possibly as a last resort if their standard doesn't make it.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
stephengillie 15y ago
In short, Apple is becoming an MNVO. With Mobile Network Virtual Operators, you don't know which carrier your connection is actually going over. Apple is signaling to the rest of us that the "dumb pipe" future which carriers are facing is quickly approaching. None of us will care who provides the future 4G/5G/6G connection; we'll just go with the cheapest carrier at the time. Apple here is just streamlining this process so their customers won't have to waste their time and money figuring it out, and they probably won't be alone in offering this type of service to the public. --- Edit: The article makes a big deal about not being able to remove the SIM card from your phone. CDMA phones have never had SIM cards - to switch phones with Verizon or Sprint, you have to update which MEID or IMEI (number from the phone) is attached to your account. For many years, we were locked into brand-only phones because they were the only ones in the "allowed" database.
- nodata 15y ago
  > we'll just go with the cheapest carrier at the time. Given constraints. I'm not going with the cheapest if they drop my connection every minute.
- recoiledsnake 15y ago
  >For many years, we were locked into brand-only phones because they were the only ones in the "allowed" database. That is still the case. Verizon and Sprint will not activate any phone that they haven't previously sold.
  - bonyt 15y ago
    Verizon's new LTE phones have sim cards, although I'm not sure if they are for the phone's LTE radio only - I just got a warranty replacement phone and the activation process was simply switching the sim card.
    - martey 15y ago
      Verizon's LTE phones do use SIM cards, but it would probably be futile to try to use them on Sprint or AT&T's LTE networks, since they run on different frequencies, and you wouldn't get standard voice or 3G data coverage.
ErikHuisman 15y ago
How about apple wanting to create a more user friendly experience. Buy several devices and instantly switch your single virtual sim around through web, iTunes or the device. Sounds good to me. Apple proved they can control the telco's with or without the virtual sim.
- lbotos 15y ago
  I really like this idea. I've been considering an iPad and I'd love to tether it to my iPhone's data plan. I'm on Verizon. Unless I pay the tethering tax I can't do it without jail breaking. If I can take my data plan and apply it to any device that I own that'd be great. I'm one person, why should I need two data plans?
2muchcoffeeman 15y ago
If Apple are really planning a move like this we have to consider their other actions. FaceTime, Messages. I don't think we need to worry about roaming or numbers. All we'd have is data ...
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
sandfox 15y ago
!!FUD ALERT, FUD ALERT!! This entire article is just your viewpoint on this dressed up as being the facts. Most of it is just completely daft what-ifs. e.g. > If or when Apple go bust – you may be left with a brick. There will be no way to update it. really....?
MikeCo 15y ago
At the end of the day the iPhone is a consumer electronic. You vote with your dollar (or euro). Apple has a product and a set of constraints they will dictate. If you don't want it, you don't buy it. It isn't like you would die without a smartphone.
- StevenRayOrr 15y ago
  Not that I disagree, but the argument against this is often: consumers are idiots. Most people have no idea about the finer details of "problems" like this one and so will completely ignore it when making their purchase. If the iPhone meets all their needs but does secret voodoo to carriers on the back end, consumers are losing -- sometimes long after they've voted with their dollar. Hence: regulators.
  - dzhiurgis 15y ago
    Well you said it - the carriers are loosing, not the consumers.
fierarul 15y ago
I see this as progress. Yes, Apple could use the SIM-less phone to control everything and that would be bad. But this also means we could have "unlocked" SIM-less phones where I could swap networks freely. I never understood SIM cards: what I want is to use Orange like I use Skype. That is, input an user and password and presto! If I want to switch over to Vodafone, input my Vodafone credentials and that's it.
- sp332 15y ago
  Unless you can store identities on the phone, and switch carriers by pressing a button or some other completely painless process that takes less than 5 minutes, it won't be as nice as SIM cards, where you can have one for each country you travel to and pop them in & out as you go along.
- glogla 15y ago
  Vodafone SIM is your Vodafone login and password, and it is the same with any other operator. And with the problems we are facing with PKI right now, it might as well be the most practical way to do it, since MITM on mobile network would have been a night mare. Then again, it probably isn't the most practical way, the technology is old and the encryption broken.
moron 15y ago
Apple has already made a SIM-less iPhone before, for Verizon. But whatever, I'm sure that doesn't fit in with this goofball's doomsaying. What a shitty piece of FUD.
- mindjiver 15y ago
  The Verizon iPhone was running on 3GPP2/CDMA network, this does not have SIM card. It is the 3GPP (note the missing 2) track that uses SIM cards. The 3GPP track is the most common track outside North America where the CDMA was strong. For 4G it looks like a total walk over for LTE though, LTE comes from the 3GPP track. The 2G/3G/4G evolution for 3GPP looks something like this (sorry for the alphabet soup) : GSM->WCDMA->LTE
elliottkember 15y ago
This sounds ideal to me! Let's think of some other possible pros, since the author hasn't seemed to bother: Stolen phones can't be used. No changing SIMs when you travel No roaming fees! One bill for cell usage and purchases Apple's excellent customer support, full-stack - to name a few. The main point is, the user doesn't have to mess around with installing a SIM card. In my opinion, the SIM is a holdover from a previous status quo, - we accept it because we've never known an alternative.
- dzhiurgis 15y ago
  I believe it should be possible to virtually route the calls to whatever numbers you've decided - let's say you have one personal and one business number. However, you can switch of the business number when you leave the work, or limit incoming calls for personal number only to close family members, etc. Besides, phone numbers are obsolete as well. I think this virtualisation should give possibility to move away from them.
zhoutong 15y ago
If monopoly and charging high tariffs for usage are what Apple wants, they can simply work with a single carrier in a market to achieve them. Apple already had that control before. Perhaps the more sound reason to go SIM-less is to reduce the barrier to switch, promote competition among mobile carriers and improve the whole user experience. Don't forget that iPhone only works well with good mobile services. To Apple, the prices are easy to control but the quality of service is not. If virtual SIM is really coming, we could even expect a configuration that allows you to use different operators in different locations or for different purposes (data, voice call or SMS). I believe that this is what Apple is truly interested in.
- nirvdrum 15y ago
  I'd posit that reducing the barrier to switch doesn't improve the whole user experience. Granted Apple would staunchly disagree with me on that. But when I engage in a 2 year contract, that's on the carrier-side. I should be able to use whatever phone I want on that contract. I no longer use an iPhone, but I used to regularly pop the SIM out and put in an old flip phone if I thought I was going to do something that had a high likelihood of breaking my iPhone.
- jellicle 15y ago
  >Perhaps the more sound reason to go SIM-less is to reduce the barrier to switch, promote competition among mobile carriers and improve the whole user experience. What?
shane_mcd 15y ago
What a load of crap. Most of this article isn't even true. Last time I checked, Apple could care less how much data is used. The only reason FaceTime is wifi only is because of the carriers.
forgotusername 15y ago
Article aside, virtualization of the SIM means a few technically joyful possibilities: * Potentially little more than a software tweak to add UI for automatic SIM swap while roaming. The current best solution for this is a dodgy Chinese dual SIM phone, or that just-before-landing step on the plane when the battery comes out and your phone loses its time, and fires all calendar reminders when switched back on again. * Potentially user hardware gets a chance to intercept the Ki (subscriber authentication key) as it passes through iTunes. At this point all kinds of interesting things can be done (entirely outside of the mobile network's TOS, of course). Like an app that lets you rent a SIM in a target country for 24 hours, at local subscriber calling rates. While within 10 years Europe's roaming rates will be normalized, this would still be a killer feature for international travel. Sadly chances are high they'll get this right, and the vSIM will be delivered encrypted to some security module on the handset. Sometimes incompetence is a desirable thing.
- Xuzz 15y ago
  One nice feature of the iPhone right now (and the Nokia N9, but not any other phones I've used): you can simply hot-swap the SIM without any battery pulling or even rebooting. Just take out the tray, replace the SIM, and pop it back in.
- jarek 15y ago
  Now to be fair, the oldest phone I've ever used is the Blackberry 8100, released in 2006, but I've never had a phone lose its clock when pulling the main battery.
joejohnson 15y ago
Maybe I'm too trusting, but I can't imagine Apple would provide a worse experience than I've had with AT&T for the last few years. Also, I'm pretty certain that even if Apple controlled the "virtual-SIM" card, there would still be hackers jailbreaking and unlocking the devices to make them work on other networks. So, I'm not too scared.
locusm 15y ago
Didn't Japan have SIM-less phones like 20 years ago? Don't recall if they were tied to a single network though.
- locusm 15y ago
  According to this article they were locked and one couldn't purchase a SIM separately. So no, they weren't SIM-less. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_industry_in_Japan#NTT_DoCoMo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_industry_in_Japan...
Jeffrey903 15y ago
My understanding of what Apple is likely trying to do with a SIM-less phone is allow you to choose your carrier and change it at any time directly from your phone, without needing to seek out a little piece of plastic and a paperclip. When I went to Europe this summer with my 3G iPad, it was difficult in some cities to find a place to even buy a SIM card (let alone a paperclip to use to eject the SIM tray). Since my iPad is unlocked, it seemed to be a bit ridiculous that I even had to go through this. My device should just do a network scan, see what networks are available, and let me compare the plans (price/data) and choose one directly from my device.
drfuchs 15y ago
SIM = Evil. Takes up precious battery space! Door makes edge of phone non-smooth. Internal mechanism adds to cost of goods and manufacturing. Overall non-green. Simply anachronistic.
bjornsing 15y ago
> For now, the operators are on the side of consumers against manufacturers. But it only takes one to start us down that slippery slope. Are you sure that's how you feel about it? I'd say Apple is on the side of consumers, against operators that are notoriously anti-consumer.
- kalleboo 15y ago
  Apple is on e side of a certain kind of consumer. The kind that gets confused by choice (since you might make the wrong one).
holyjaw 15y ago
- I can't find any relevant information on the "O2 was really just Apple as MVNO" bit from the article - I have never heard this and if it's true I'd live to read more - Apple didnt just create the Micro-SIM to lock you in to the iPhone 4 -- since day 1 (American) carriers have had access to stockpiles of SIM cards and can very easily swap you to a normal sized one if need be. Literally, it has never been difficult. - If Apple really wants the Virtual SIM, why are they feinting with heavy tactics like saying they'll license the Nano SIM for free to anyone that wants it should it become the next spec? Hardly seems like the strategy to put behind your losing prospective.
dzhiurgis 15y ago
I think the operators should stay focused on what they do the best - building and updating infrastructure. It shouldn't be their job to provide the marketing for device, service or even apps. However, since they are the owners of this massive usage data, they can comprehend in a most accurate way what is the customer like and what does it want. They have the best metrics to measure how the customer responds to marketing, etc. But bottom line is that I just want my phone to work. I don't care what network it runs, I want it to WORK. I don't want to pay less for something that doesn't work (surprise surprise Lycamobile doesn't cater 3G for iPhone 4S). I don't want to pay for ridiculous unlimited 100000 minutes and 100000000 texts per month. However, I do want to pay for 1 Gb monthly data, and a sensible amount for 5 calls I make per month (heh, try that - O2 PAYG single call or text price is close to the european roaming charges...) And the last thing I want to pay is extra charges for using VoIP (TeliaSonera). So for me, operators are not on my side. I am always in lose-lose situation.
pistoriusp 15y ago
This may be true in the USA, but in my country it's illegal to lock a phone to a single provider. You buy a SIM card. You stick it in a phone. Viola. So SIMless phones would have to be supported by the networks. I would imagine that they're all working on it.
aneth 15y ago
This seems extremely conspiratorial and likely wrong. iPhones can already be locked to a carrier. Whether the SIM card is virtual is irrelevant. If the carriers want to screw you, they already have means to do so. In fact, I suspect a phone with a virtual SIM card may be easier to unlock than a physical one since Apple must distribute software designed to program the virtual SIM card. You also won't need to physically get a SIM card to use a network and you'll be able to use multiple networks with the same phone. That sounds like a plus to me. Regardless, the SIM card is certainly not the limiting factor in carrier portability or locking. It's essentially a floppy disk, and is quite unnecessary given data connectivity these days. The idea that Apple wanted a smaller SIM as a step closer to no SIM is ridiculous. What difference does the size make? Having a card or not having a card is binary.
no_more_death 15y ago
Don't get scared. Get Android. Don't do business with a company designed to take advantage of you. Problem solved.
bconway 15y ago
Apple-bashing aside, in the US, we already have this problem. We call them CDMA phones. They're locked to networks, aren't portable in any way (if they have a SIM slot for GSM use, it can't be used domestically), and they're typically worth a lot less on resale.
gouranga 15y ago
I don't think the EU will like this. They seem to have a lot of sane opinions about such things at the moment.
gte910h 15y ago
This sounds like a European feeling terrified of the experience every Verizon customer already has. He even says so: "I dread the future where devices are locked down like American CDMA phones. No choice other than what the manufacturer demands. Gone will be the days of choosing the right phone and the right price-plan. You’ll take the service you’re given and will have to put up with it."

126 points by edent 15y ago

A SIM-less network will have to developed sooner or later. If we are to connect n * 10 billion devices to the mobile network the amount of gold used for the SIM cards will become an issue. So removing the need for a SIM, and thus the gold used, will be neccessity. But most likely this will be driven through the "normal" standardization committees (3GPP etc) instead of coming from Apple.

46Bit 15y ago

The title doesn't match up with what the article admits: that for the time being it was rejected by the carriers.

TazeTSchnitzel 15y ago
It's only a matter of time, though, unless regulators step in.
- martey 15y ago
  I am confused about why regulators should be involved. The purpose of the ETSI is to create mobile industry standards. I think the author would argue that these benefit the consumer. The main issue with the article isn't its hyperbolic headline, but the fact that the author implies that Apple is introducting their nano-SIM design in order to further lock down devices, when their design is actually more backwards compatible than the ones submitted by Nokia and RIM: http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/26/2904153/apple-vs-nokia-4ff-nano-sim/in/2666951 http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/26/2904153/apple-vs-nokia-4ff...
  - edent 15y ago
    (I'm the author) I don't think that the nano-SIM is going to lock down devices any more than the micro-SIM. I'm saying that while everyone is battling it out over that standard, Apple will introduce their "Virtual SIM". Possibly as a last resort if their standard doesn't make it.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

stephengillie 15y ago

In short, Apple is becoming an MNVO. With Mobile Network Virtual Operators, you don't know which carrier your connection is actually going over. Apple is signaling to the rest of us that the "dumb pipe" future which carriers are facing is quickly approaching. None of us will care who provides the future 4G/5G/6G connection; we'll just go with the cheapest carrier at the time. Apple here is just streamlining this process so their customers won't have to waste their time and money figuring it out, and they probably won't be alone in offering this type of service to the public. --- Edit: The article makes a big deal about not being able to remove the SIM card from your phone. CDMA phones have never had SIM cards - to switch phones with Verizon or Sprint, you have to update which MEID or IMEI (number from the phone) is attached to your account. For many years, we were locked into brand-only phones because they were the only ones in the "allowed" database.

nodata 15y ago
> we'll just go with the cheapest carrier at the time. Given constraints. I'm not going with the cheapest if they drop my connection every minute.
recoiledsnake 15y ago
>For many years, we were locked into brand-only phones because they were the only ones in the "allowed" database. That is still the case. Verizon and Sprint will not activate any phone that they haven't previously sold.
- bonyt 15y ago
  Verizon's new LTE phones have sim cards, although I'm not sure if they are for the phone's LTE radio only - I just got a warranty replacement phone and the activation process was simply switching the sim card.
  - martey 15y ago
    Verizon's LTE phones do use SIM cards, but it would probably be futile to try to use them on Sprint or AT&T's LTE networks, since they run on different frequencies, and you wouldn't get standard voice or 3G data coverage.

ErikHuisman 15y ago

How about apple wanting to create a more user friendly experience. Buy several devices and instantly switch your single virtual sim around through web, iTunes or the device. Sounds good to me. Apple proved they can control the telco's with or without the virtual sim.

lbotos 15y ago
I really like this idea. I've been considering an iPad and I'd love to tether it to my iPhone's data plan. I'm on Verizon. Unless I pay the tethering tax I can't do it without jail breaking. If I can take my data plan and apply it to any device that I own that'd be great. I'm one person, why should I need two data plans?

2muchcoffeeman 15y ago

If Apple are really planning a move like this we have to consider their other actions. FaceTime, Messages. I don't think we need to worry about roaming or numbers. All we'd have is data ...

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

sandfox 15y ago

!!FUD ALERT, FUD ALERT!! This entire article is just your viewpoint on this dressed up as being the facts. Most of it is just completely daft what-ifs. e.g. > If or when Apple go bust – you may be left with a brick. There will be no way to update it. really....?

MikeCo 15y ago

At the end of the day the iPhone is a consumer electronic. You vote with your dollar (or euro). Apple has a product and a set of constraints they will dictate. If you don't want it, you don't buy it. It isn't like you would die without a smartphone.

StevenRayOrr 15y ago
Not that I disagree, but the argument against this is often: consumers are idiots. Most people have no idea about the finer details of "problems" like this one and so will completely ignore it when making their purchase. If the iPhone meets all their needs but does secret voodoo to carriers on the back end, consumers are losing -- sometimes long after they've voted with their dollar. Hence: regulators.
- dzhiurgis 15y ago
  Well you said it - the carriers are loosing, not the consumers.

fierarul 15y ago

I see this as progress. Yes, Apple could use the SIM-less phone to control everything and that would be bad. But this also means we could have "unlocked" SIM-less phones where I could swap networks freely. I never understood SIM cards: what I want is to use Orange like I use Skype. That is, input an user and password and presto! If I want to switch over to Vodafone, input my Vodafone credentials and that's it.

sp332 15y ago
Unless you can store identities on the phone, and switch carriers by pressing a button or some other completely painless process that takes less than 5 minutes, it won't be as nice as SIM cards, where you can have one for each country you travel to and pop them in & out as you go along.
glogla 15y ago
Vodafone SIM is your Vodafone login and password, and it is the same with any other operator. And with the problems we are facing with PKI right now, it might as well be the most practical way to do it, since MITM on mobile network would have been a night mare. Then again, it probably isn't the most practical way, the technology is old and the encryption broken.

moron 15y ago

Apple has already made a SIM-less iPhone before, for Verizon. But whatever, I'm sure that doesn't fit in with this goofball's doomsaying. What a shitty piece of FUD.

mindjiver 15y ago
The Verizon iPhone was running on 3GPP2/CDMA network, this does not have SIM card. It is the 3GPP (note the missing 2) track that uses SIM cards. The 3GPP track is the most common track outside North America where the CDMA was strong. For 4G it looks like a total walk over for LTE though, LTE comes from the 3GPP track. The 2G/3G/4G evolution for 3GPP looks something like this (sorry for the alphabet soup) : GSM->WCDMA->LTE

elliottkember 15y ago

This sounds ideal to me! Let's think of some other possible pros, since the author hasn't seemed to bother: Stolen phones can't be used. No changing SIMs when you travel No roaming fees! One bill for cell usage and purchases Apple's excellent customer support, full-stack - to name a few. The main point is, the user doesn't have to mess around with installing a SIM card. In my opinion, the SIM is a holdover from a previous status quo, - we accept it because we've never known an alternative.

dzhiurgis 15y ago
I believe it should be possible to virtually route the calls to whatever numbers you've decided - let's say you have one personal and one business number. However, you can switch of the business number when you leave the work, or limit incoming calls for personal number only to close family members, etc. Besides, phone numbers are obsolete as well. I think this virtualisation should give possibility to move away from them.

zhoutong 15y ago

If monopoly and charging high tariffs for usage are what Apple wants, they can simply work with a single carrier in a market to achieve them. Apple already had that control before. Perhaps the more sound reason to go SIM-less is to reduce the barrier to switch, promote competition among mobile carriers and improve the whole user experience. Don't forget that iPhone only works well with good mobile services. To Apple, the prices are easy to control but the quality of service is not. If virtual SIM is really coming, we could even expect a configuration that allows you to use different operators in different locations or for different purposes (data, voice call or SMS). I believe that this is what Apple is truly interested in.

nirvdrum 15y ago
I'd posit that reducing the barrier to switch doesn't improve the whole user experience. Granted Apple would staunchly disagree with me on that. But when I engage in a 2 year contract, that's on the carrier-side. I should be able to use whatever phone I want on that contract. I no longer use an iPhone, but I used to regularly pop the SIM out and put in an old flip phone if I thought I was going to do something that had a high likelihood of breaking my iPhone.
jellicle 15y ago
>Perhaps the more sound reason to go SIM-less is to reduce the barrier to switch, promote competition among mobile carriers and improve the whole user experience. What?

shane_mcd 15y ago

What a load of crap. Most of this article isn't even true. Last time I checked, Apple could care less how much data is used. The only reason FaceTime is wifi only is because of the carriers.

forgotusername 15y ago

Article aside, virtualization of the SIM means a few technically joyful possibilities: * Potentially little more than a software tweak to add UI for automatic SIM swap while roaming. The current best solution for this is a dodgy Chinese dual SIM phone, or that just-before-landing step on the plane when the battery comes out and your phone loses its time, and fires all calendar reminders when switched back on again. * Potentially user hardware gets a chance to intercept the Ki (subscriber authentication key) as it passes through iTunes. At this point all kinds of interesting things can be done (entirely outside of the mobile network's TOS, of course). Like an app that lets you rent a SIM in a target country for 24 hours, at local subscriber calling rates. While within 10 years Europe's roaming rates will be normalized, this would still be a killer feature for international travel. Sadly chances are high they'll get this right, and the vSIM will be delivered encrypted to some security module on the handset. Sometimes incompetence is a desirable thing.

Xuzz 15y ago
One nice feature of the iPhone right now (and the Nokia N9, but not any other phones I've used): you can simply hot-swap the SIM without any battery pulling or even rebooting. Just take out the tray, replace the SIM, and pop it back in.
jarek 15y ago
Now to be fair, the oldest phone I've ever used is the Blackberry 8100, released in 2006, but I've never had a phone lose its clock when pulling the main battery.

joejohnson 15y ago

Maybe I'm too trusting, but I can't imagine Apple would provide a worse experience than I've had with AT&T for the last few years. Also, I'm pretty certain that even if Apple controlled the "virtual-SIM" card, there would still be hackers jailbreaking and unlocking the devices to make them work on other networks. So, I'm not too scared.

locusm 15y ago

Didn't Japan have SIM-less phones like 20 years ago? Don't recall if they were tied to a single network though.

locusm 15y ago
According to this article they were locked and one couldn't purchase a SIM separately. So no, they weren't SIM-less. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_industry_in_Japan#NTT_DoCoMo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_industry_in_Japan...

Jeffrey903 15y ago

My understanding of what Apple is likely trying to do with a SIM-less phone is allow you to choose your carrier and change it at any time directly from your phone, without needing to seek out a little piece of plastic and a paperclip. When I went to Europe this summer with my 3G iPad, it was difficult in some cities to find a place to even buy a SIM card (let alone a paperclip to use to eject the SIM tray). Since my iPad is unlocked, it seemed to be a bit ridiculous that I even had to go through this. My device should just do a network scan, see what networks are available, and let me compare the plans (price/data) and choose one directly from my device.

drfuchs 15y ago

SIM = Evil. Takes up precious battery space! Door makes edge of phone non-smooth. Internal mechanism adds to cost of goods and manufacturing. Overall non-green. Simply anachronistic.

bjornsing 15y ago

> For now, the operators are on the side of consumers against manufacturers. But it only takes one to start us down that slippery slope. Are you sure that's how you feel about it? I'd say Apple is on the side of consumers, against operators that are notoriously anti-consumer.

kalleboo 15y ago
Apple is on e side of a certain kind of consumer. The kind that gets confused by choice (since you might make the wrong one).

holyjaw 15y ago

- I can't find any relevant information on the "O2 was really just Apple as MVNO" bit from the article - I have never heard this and if it's true I'd live to read more - Apple didnt just create the Micro-SIM to lock you in to the iPhone 4 -- since day 1 (American) carriers have had access to stockpiles of SIM cards and can very easily swap you to a normal sized one if need be. Literally, it has never been difficult. - If Apple really wants the Virtual SIM, why are they feinting with heavy tactics like saying they'll license the Nano SIM for free to anyone that wants it should it become the next spec? Hardly seems like the strategy to put behind your losing prospective.

dzhiurgis 15y ago

I think the operators should stay focused on what they do the best - building and updating infrastructure. It shouldn't be their job to provide the marketing for device, service or even apps. However, since they are the owners of this massive usage data, they can comprehend in a most accurate way what is the customer like and what does it want. They have the best metrics to measure how the customer responds to marketing, etc. But bottom line is that I just want my phone to work. I don't care what network it runs, I want it to WORK. I don't want to pay less for something that doesn't work (surprise surprise Lycamobile doesn't cater 3G for iPhone 4S). I don't want to pay for ridiculous unlimited 100000 minutes and 100000000 texts per month. However, I do want to pay for 1 Gb monthly data, and a sensible amount for 5 calls I make per month (heh, try that - O2 PAYG single call or text price is close to the european roaming charges...) And the last thing I want to pay is extra charges for using VoIP (TeliaSonera). So for me, operators are not on my side. I am always in lose-lose situation.

pistoriusp 15y ago

This may be true in the USA, but in my country it's illegal to lock a phone to a single provider. You buy a SIM card. You stick it in a phone. Viola. So SIMless phones would have to be supported by the networks. I would imagine that they're all working on it.

aneth 15y ago

This seems extremely conspiratorial and likely wrong. iPhones can already be locked to a carrier. Whether the SIM card is virtual is irrelevant. If the carriers want to screw you, they already have means to do so. In fact, I suspect a phone with a virtual SIM card may be easier to unlock than a physical one since Apple must distribute software designed to program the virtual SIM card. You also won't need to physically get a SIM card to use a network and you'll be able to use multiple networks with the same phone. That sounds like a plus to me. Regardless, the SIM card is certainly not the limiting factor in carrier portability or locking. It's essentially a floppy disk, and is quite unnecessary given data connectivity these days. The idea that Apple wanted a smaller SIM as a step closer to no SIM is ridiculous. What difference does the size make? Having a card or not having a card is binary.

no_more_death 15y ago

Don't get scared. Get Android. Don't do business with a company designed to take advantage of you. Problem solved.

bconway 15y ago

Apple-bashing aside, in the US, we already have this problem. We call them CDMA phones. They're locked to networks, aren't portable in any way (if they have a SIM slot for GSM use, it can't be used domestically), and they're typically worth a lot less on resale.

gouranga 15y ago

I don't think the EU will like this. They seem to have a lot of sane opinions about such things at the moment.

gte910h 15y ago

This sounds like a European feeling terrified of the experience every Verizon customer already has. He even says so: "I dread the future where devices are locked down like American CDMA phones. No choice other than what the manufacturer demands. Gone will be the days of choosing the right phone and the right price-plan. You’ll take the service you’re given and will have to put up with it."