7 ms·

Most people going shopping need to bring multiple bags home. How about if you have small kids? What about areas of the country that have winter 6 months out

Most people going shopping need to bring multiple bags home. How about if you have small kids? What about areas of the country that have winter 6 months out of the year? It might increase business for a very small and narrow demographic, but I seriously doubt this will be the case overall.

NegativeLatency 3y ago
Check out the style of bike called a bakfiets (or any other cargo bike) it's a game changer. I have carried my wife and groceries a couple of times, and also picked up lumber and tools with it. Granted they're expensive (compared to most bikes), but it costs me about an ebike most of the time that my car goes into the shop, and my e-bakfiets has never needed any repairs that I was not able to do myself (even if you take it some place it's much cheaper).
- meragrin_ 3y ago
  > Check out the style of bike called a bakfiets (or any other cargo bike) it's a game changer. I have carried my wife and groceries a couple of times, and also picked up lumber and tools with it. Okay, I did. What is your definition of lumber? The bikes I saw would only be suitable for what I would consider "small sticks".
  - NegativeLatency 3y ago
    the lumber load was something like: - 6 2x4x12, strapped diagonally lengthwise on the top of the bin - big box of nails - air framing nailer - extension and air cords - pancake air compressor - other assorted stuff
    - meragrin_ 3y ago
      Have a link to the bin? All the bins I've seen don't look suitable for long lumber or are expensive enough where renting a truck is by far the cheaper route.
ChrisKingWebDev 3y ago
There are places in Finland where half the kids cycle to school, even in the winter. Here is a great video on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
eesmith 3y ago
Are you sure about that? Quite a few people going shopping are just to pick up a couple of items - they need milk for the kids' breakfast, or forgot to pick up a couple of tomatoes for dinner. There's a 15-items-or-less counter because people use it. A bike can carry several bags, with a front basket and two side baskets. In an area not built solely for cars, the purchasing dynamics change a lot. With a bike, you can park in front of the store and be in and out pretty quickly. You end up doing a smaller trips more often rather than large trips. You also end up having more smaller stores nearby, for daily shopping. You still use the car for the monthly big trips to Costco, but walk or bike to fill in the odds&ends. Also, several grocery stores in our city offer delivery, so that's another option for the bulky items.
- trgn 3y ago
  I love reading these sort of takes. It really is AND/AND. Yes, have your car, do all the car-things. But it _also_ should be safe and convenient to ride a bike. These things are not in opposition, especially since roads are so wide in most american cities, there is so so much space to really have our cake and eat it. It really pains me, looking at the downtown streets in my city, 4-6 lanes dedicated to cars, barely used, and seeing the odd bicyclist scurrying like a rat, on&off the sidewalk, hoping not to get hit by a car going way too fast, just because of all that wide open buffer space. All it takes is paint and a few bollards. And it's just too much. It takes years, if it does even happen.
  - eesmith 3y ago
    > All it takes is paint and a few bollards. From all that I've heard, an effective change requires far more than that. For example, the bollards do make it one step higher than a "bike gutter", but how does the city clean leaves and trash, or snow, from the lane if the normal street sweeper and snow plow can't get in due to the bollards? Instead, you'll need specialized equipment for the lane (or bike lanes which are wide enough for cleaning/clearing equipment), and the political will to not prioritize cleaning the car lanes first. You can't have bollards at intersections, so you'll end up with drivers using the bike lane as a turn lane, and turning across a lane without noticing that a cyclist is there. With a road redesign you can build in affordances which encourage better interactions than you get with mere paint.
UtopiaPunk 3y ago
For big grocery trips I'll use my car. But I can comfortably carry four bags of groceries using a bike rack and two large pannier bags. My bike is nothing fancy, either. The whole thing (bike, rack, panniers) is under $1000, and just uses leg power. If someone wants to haul more on a bike, there are solutions out there.
trgn 3y ago
I get that, but then, in actual reality, tens of millions of people, daily, in all weather, again, in the actual real world, in the netherlands, belgium, scandinavia, in wealthier countries than america, some with extreme climates, run errands with their bikes, have kids go to school, get their needs met. All without cars. Daily. In pouring rain, snow. These people do not come home wishing they had a car, which they likely have anyway. They just shrug, ugh, nasty weather, and get cozy as they kick of their shoes So I don't know, it all feels like arguing from the gut. The gut says bikes don't have a place as a convenient or respectable means of transport in America, and therefore, arguments from geography, climate, ... are marshalled to support that position.
Gigachad 3y ago
I live in a fairly walkable area. The supermarket is close enough that I can go multiple times a day if I want. I just buy exactly what I want when I need it. Buying a weeks worth of food and letting half of it rot is just another symptom of car dependency.

NegativeLatency 3y ago

Check out the style of bike called a bakfiets (or any other cargo bike) it's a game changer. I have carried my wife and groceries a couple of times, and also picked up lumber and tools with it. Granted they're expensive (compared to most bikes), but it costs me about an ebike most of the time that my car goes into the shop, and my e-bakfiets has never needed any repairs that I was not able to do myself (even if you take it some place it's much cheaper).

meragrin_ 3y ago
> Check out the style of bike called a bakfiets (or any other cargo bike) it's a game changer. I have carried my wife and groceries a couple of times, and also picked up lumber and tools with it. Okay, I did. What is your definition of lumber? The bikes I saw would only be suitable for what I would consider "small sticks".
- NegativeLatency 3y ago
  the lumber load was something like: - 6 2x4x12, strapped diagonally lengthwise on the top of the bin - big box of nails - air framing nailer - extension and air cords - pancake air compressor - other assorted stuff
  - meragrin_ 3y ago
    Have a link to the bin? All the bins I've seen don't look suitable for long lumber or are expensive enough where renting a truck is by far the cheaper route.

ChrisKingWebDev 3y ago

There are places in Finland where half the kids cycle to school, even in the winter. Here is a great video on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

eesmith 3y ago

Are you sure about that? Quite a few people going shopping are just to pick up a couple of items - they need milk for the kids' breakfast, or forgot to pick up a couple of tomatoes for dinner. There's a 15-items-or-less counter because people use it. A bike can carry several bags, with a front basket and two side baskets. In an area not built solely for cars, the purchasing dynamics change a lot. With a bike, you can park in front of the store and be in and out pretty quickly. You end up doing a smaller trips more often rather than large trips. You also end up having more smaller stores nearby, for daily shopping. You still use the car for the monthly big trips to Costco, but walk or bike to fill in the odds&ends. Also, several grocery stores in our city offer delivery, so that's another option for the bulky items.

trgn 3y ago
I love reading these sort of takes. It really is AND/AND. Yes, have your car, do all the car-things. But it _also_ should be safe and convenient to ride a bike. These things are not in opposition, especially since roads are so wide in most american cities, there is so so much space to really have our cake and eat it. It really pains me, looking at the downtown streets in my city, 4-6 lanes dedicated to cars, barely used, and seeing the odd bicyclist scurrying like a rat, on&off the sidewalk, hoping not to get hit by a car going way too fast, just because of all that wide open buffer space. All it takes is paint and a few bollards. And it's just too much. It takes years, if it does even happen.
- eesmith 3y ago
  > All it takes is paint and a few bollards. From all that I've heard, an effective change requires far more than that. For example, the bollards do make it one step higher than a "bike gutter", but how does the city clean leaves and trash, or snow, from the lane if the normal street sweeper and snow plow can't get in due to the bollards? Instead, you'll need specialized equipment for the lane (or bike lanes which are wide enough for cleaning/clearing equipment), and the political will to not prioritize cleaning the car lanes first. You can't have bollards at intersections, so you'll end up with drivers using the bike lane as a turn lane, and turning across a lane without noticing that a cyclist is there. With a road redesign you can build in affordances which encourage better interactions than you get with mere paint.

UtopiaPunk 3y ago

For big grocery trips I'll use my car. But I can comfortably carry four bags of groceries using a bike rack and two large pannier bags. My bike is nothing fancy, either. The whole thing (bike, rack, panniers) is under $1000, and just uses leg power. If someone wants to haul more on a bike, there are solutions out there.

trgn 3y ago

I get that, but then, in actual reality, tens of millions of people, daily, in all weather, again, in the actual real world, in the netherlands, belgium, scandinavia, in wealthier countries than america, some with extreme climates, run errands with their bikes, have kids go to school, get their needs met. All without cars. Daily. In pouring rain, snow. These people do not come home wishing they had a car, which they likely have anyway. They just shrug, ugh, nasty weather, and get cozy as they kick of their shoes So I don't know, it all feels like arguing from the gut. The gut says bikes don't have a place as a convenient or respectable means of transport in America, and therefore, arguments from geography, climate, ... are marshalled to support that position.

Gigachad 3y ago

I live in a fairly walkable area. The supermarket is close enough that I can go multiple times a day if I want. I just buy exactly what I want when I need it. Buying a weeks worth of food and letting half of it rot is just another symptom of car dependency.