7 ms·

Yes, this is a great way to fight against Putin, but... As a Swedish citizen, I think this means in the future Sweden's forces will be dragged into another Ira

Yes, this is a great way to fight against Putin, but... As a Swedish citizen, I think this means in the future Sweden's forces will be dragged into another Iraq-like war down the line. Sooner or later the US or NATO will be the Putin of today, and I don't look forward to that.

troupo 3y ago
> I think this means in the future Sweden's forces will be dragged into another Iraq-like war down the line This doesn't follow from the NATO treaty. Perhaps the U.S. will have it's freedom herring moment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries
screenobobeano 3y ago
[flagged]
partiallypro 3y ago
NATO countries only have to react if other member countries are attacked. NATO did not participate in Iraq; some members did but as a coalition they did not. They did participate in some operations in Afghanistan post-911 however, because that was a direct attack on a NATO member. Also saying the US or NATO are remotely similar to Putin is both-sides-ing nonsense.
CogitoCogito 3y ago
Well Sweden could later leave the alliance if it no longer fit its interests. I doubt they would leave just to get out of being "dragged into another Iraq-like war" since well supporting your allies is the whole point of NATO, but if the US or the rest of NATO took the place of Putin, then maybe Sweden really would leave the alliance. edit: Also wasn't article 5 invoked by the US against Afghanistan and not Iraq? (Maybe I'm not remembering right.)
realityking 3y ago
Germany and France, both NATO members, did bot participate in the Iraq war. Also NATO itself did not as there was no consensus among the members to be involved. In Afghanistan there was the necessary consensus (and Article 5 was invoked) so NATO took an active role and ran ISAF - to which Sweden contributed quite significant troops.
Hamuko 3y ago
Didn't Sweden already have boots on the ground in Afghanistan as a NATO partner country? They've been in PfP since 1994.
- kzrdude 3y ago
  In Afghanistan yes. Sweden has also been in Mali with France, presumably for strategic "partnership and networking" reasons (because it was pre-NATO).
dralley 3y ago
The only way that would happen, is if a NATO member was attacked first, on a territory in the North Atlantic. A NATO member who goes off on their own and starts a war isn't entitled to calling NATO to its defense.
- waffleiron 3y ago
  False flags are possible though, wouldn’t be the first time a war is started based on lies
- jasonvorhe 3y ago
  Oh yeah, I forgot, NATO is a defense alliance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
lawn 3y ago
NATO is a defence alliance, how are you going to spin that into invading a country like Iraq? We can also leave NATO if it somehow transforms into Putin.
luuurker 3y ago
It's important to remember that NATO wasn't involved in the invasion of Iraq. That was a US/UK invasion, with a small contribution from Poland and Australia.

troupo 3y ago

> I think this means in the future Sweden's forces will be dragged into another Iraq-like war down the line This doesn't follow from the NATO treaty. Perhaps the U.S. will have it's freedom herring moment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries

screenobobeano 3y ago

[flagged]

partiallypro 3y ago

NATO countries only have to react if other member countries are attacked. NATO did not participate in Iraq; some members did but as a coalition they did not. They did participate in some operations in Afghanistan post-911 however, because that was a direct attack on a NATO member. Also saying the US or NATO are remotely similar to Putin is both-sides-ing nonsense.

CogitoCogito 3y ago

Well Sweden could later leave the alliance if it no longer fit its interests. I doubt they would leave just to get out of being "dragged into another Iraq-like war" since well supporting your allies is the whole point of NATO, but if the US or the rest of NATO took the place of Putin, then maybe Sweden really would leave the alliance. edit: Also wasn't article 5 invoked by the US against Afghanistan and not Iraq? (Maybe I'm not remembering right.)

realityking 3y ago

Germany and France, both NATO members, did bot participate in the Iraq war. Also NATO itself did not as there was no consensus among the members to be involved. In Afghanistan there was the necessary consensus (and Article 5 was invoked) so NATO took an active role and ran ISAF - to which Sweden contributed quite significant troops.

Hamuko 3y ago

Didn't Sweden already have boots on the ground in Afghanistan as a NATO partner country? They've been in PfP since 1994.

kzrdude 3y ago
In Afghanistan yes. Sweden has also been in Mali with France, presumably for strategic "partnership and networking" reasons (because it was pre-NATO).

dralley 3y ago

The only way that would happen, is if a NATO member was attacked first, on a territory in the North Atlantic. A NATO member who goes off on their own and starts a war isn't entitled to calling NATO to its defense.

waffleiron 3y ago
False flags are possible though, wouldn’t be the first time a war is started based on lies
jasonvorhe 3y ago
Oh yeah, I forgot, NATO is a defense alliance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

lawn 3y ago

NATO is a defence alliance, how are you going to spin that into invading a country like Iraq? We can also leave NATO if it somehow transforms into Putin.

luuurker 3y ago

It's important to remember that NATO wasn't involved in the invasion of Iraq. That was a US/UK invasion, with a small contribution from Poland and Australia.