3 ms·

Doesn’t surprise me one bit. Buy Brother printers. But it’s a worrisome trend that is now spreading to so many areas. We need to opt out and start using altern

Doesn’t surprise me one bit. Buy Brother printers. But it’s a worrisome trend that is now spreading to so many areas. We need to opt out and start using alternatives. Even if it means using an inferior product.

alyandon 3y ago
Brother used to be my go to as well but they have apparently started putting DRM checks in their toner/ink cartridges as well. I'm not aware of any brands now that aren't doing this.
- phero_cnstrcts 3y ago
  Oh damn. I recently bought one for my girlfriend. This was one aspect I didn't even bother checking.
- throw0101d 3y ago
  The OEM-only toner lock was introduced with a particular revision of firmware (not sure which). If you have a firmware newer than that, it may be possible to find an older pre-locking release and downgrade: * https://old.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/w9bc3g/downdgrading_brother_printer_mfc_37_how_to_find/ https://old.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/w9bc3g/downdgradi... * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131
- nick__m 3y ago
  The DRM in my Brother printer (HL-L2350DW) is quite limited: it write non genuine toner somewhere in the print dialog properties and that's it. Nothing is disabled and the print quality is not degraded.
  - paulmd 3y ago
    they have gotten much more aggressive with it in the last few years https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131
- omoikane 3y ago
  Wouldn't it be nice if there were an open source printer? There was a thread a few years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24786721 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24786721 - Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers? (2020) There was some mentioning of forensic tracking requirements for printers in the comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 - List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots (2017) But I am not sure if forensic requirements is the reason why people didn't want to make printers. I suspect the demand for printing at home has declined to the point where making a good printer is no longer economically worthwhile.
  - janoc 3y ago
    You are forgetting that merely the fact that your product is open source doesn't mean you won't go bankrupt because you are going to compete with HP, Brother, Samsung, Lexmark, etc. 99.9% of people don't care that your gizmo is open source, they want to print - and ideally cheaper and better than elsewhere. If the only thing in your favor is open source then you will fail in the market. Also any low quantity, boutique production is by definition going to be more expensive that mass produced models. And don't get me started on the patent minefield that covers many aspects of printer technology. You will have to license those - or be sued into oblivion. Good luck! People calling for "someone" to make open source this or that are usually completely ignoring elementary economics of the endeavor. It really has zero to do with any sort of government tracking dots conspiracy (not all printers do that) or that there is supposedly no demand to print at home (if that was true then HP etc. would have been bankrupt already and not making more crappy consumer printers). Oh and that completely ignores the elephant in the room - do you think that the fact the printer firmware is by some hypothetical magic open source now will prevent the OEM from DRMing the toner/inks? The DRM is not meant to prevent dedicated individuals to bypass it - only to keep 99% of people who barely know how to put new consumables in from using competitor's supplies. Those are certainly not going to flash firmware without the DRM into their printers en masse. Most people don't unlock/jailbreak their phones either - they want to use them as phones, not to hack this or that. They don't have the technical skills required either - and won't pay others to do it in any significant quantity. Heck, if you want to hack your DRMed printer you could do that even today already, there are hacks and DRM bypasses for many of those DRMed printers online ... An open source printer is a mirage and a complete red herring.
larvaetron 3y ago
> Buy Brother printers. Brother is going down the same path, sadly. They started pushing their EZ-Print subscription in a software update a few months ago.
- phero_cnstrcts 3y ago
  Yeah, sorry. I stand corrected =(
throw0101d 3y ago
I've heard good things about Kyocera printers in the business/enterprise-y side of things. (No personal experience.)
smsm42 3y ago
Latest MacOS versions for some reason have pretty bad Brother printer support - I have to print on my (admittedly pretty old) printer using a special app instead of just sending it to the printer as it used to work. Maybe newer ones don't have this problem?

alyandon 3y ago

Brother used to be my go to as well but they have apparently started putting DRM checks in their toner/ink cartridges as well. I'm not aware of any brands now that aren't doing this.

phero_cnstrcts 3y ago
Oh damn. I recently bought one for my girlfriend. This was one aspect I didn't even bother checking.
throw0101d 3y ago
The OEM-only toner lock was introduced with a particular revision of firmware (not sure which). If you have a firmware newer than that, it may be possible to find an older pre-locking release and downgrade: * https://old.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/w9bc3g/downdgrading_brother_printer_mfc_37_how_to_find/ https://old.reddit.com/r/printers/comments/w9bc3g/downdgradi... * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131
nick__m 3y ago
The DRM in my Brother printer (HL-L2350DW) is quite limited: it write non genuine toner somewhere in the print dialog properties and that's it. Nothing is disabled and the print quality is not degraded.
- paulmd 3y ago
  they have gotten much more aggressive with it in the last few years https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31860131
omoikane 3y ago
Wouldn't it be nice if there were an open source printer? There was a thread a few years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24786721 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24786721 - Ask HN: Why are there no open source 2d printers? (2020) There was some mentioning of forensic tracking requirements for printers in the comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14501894 - List of Printers Which Do or Do Not Display Tracking Dots (2017) But I am not sure if forensic requirements is the reason why people didn't want to make printers. I suspect the demand for printing at home has declined to the point where making a good printer is no longer economically worthwhile.
- janoc 3y ago
  You are forgetting that merely the fact that your product is open source doesn't mean you won't go bankrupt because you are going to compete with HP, Brother, Samsung, Lexmark, etc. 99.9% of people don't care that your gizmo is open source, they want to print - and ideally cheaper and better than elsewhere. If the only thing in your favor is open source then you will fail in the market. Also any low quantity, boutique production is by definition going to be more expensive that mass produced models. And don't get me started on the patent minefield that covers many aspects of printer technology. You will have to license those - or be sued into oblivion. Good luck! People calling for "someone" to make open source this or that are usually completely ignoring elementary economics of the endeavor. It really has zero to do with any sort of government tracking dots conspiracy (not all printers do that) or that there is supposedly no demand to print at home (if that was true then HP etc. would have been bankrupt already and not making more crappy consumer printers). Oh and that completely ignores the elephant in the room - do you think that the fact the printer firmware is by some hypothetical magic open source now will prevent the OEM from DRMing the toner/inks? The DRM is not meant to prevent dedicated individuals to bypass it - only to keep 99% of people who barely know how to put new consumables in from using competitor's supplies. Those are certainly not going to flash firmware without the DRM into their printers en masse. Most people don't unlock/jailbreak their phones either - they want to use them as phones, not to hack this or that. They don't have the technical skills required either - and won't pay others to do it in any significant quantity. Heck, if you want to hack your DRMed printer you could do that even today already, there are hacks and DRM bypasses for many of those DRMed printers online ... An open source printer is a mirage and a complete red herring.

larvaetron 3y ago

> Buy Brother printers. Brother is going down the same path, sadly. They started pushing their EZ-Print subscription in a software update a few months ago.

phero_cnstrcts 3y ago
Yeah, sorry. I stand corrected =(

throw0101d 3y ago

I've heard good things about Kyocera printers in the business/enterprise-y side of things. (No personal experience.)

smsm42 3y ago

Latest MacOS versions for some reason have pretty bad Brother printer support - I have to print on my (admittedly pretty old) printer using a special app instead of just sending it to the printer as it used to work. Maybe newer ones don't have this problem?