3 ms·

"Three LSDs, please." ---- My brief experiences with entheogens largely agree with the study. However, if you're not in a good place (mentally), please don't

"Three LSDs, please." ---- My brief experiences with entheogens largely agree with the study. However, if you're not in a good place (mentally), please don't just do drugs (it won't solve anything). Also, if anybody suggests you "try this," perhaps start with a microdose of psilocybin, first (but only if you're curious). ---- The beautiful interconnectedness of everything is my main "takeaway" from brief dabblings.

spoiler 3y ago
I assume you don't mean a micro dose, but a smaller dose. The point of microdosing is to almost not feel the effects of the substance, and recent research has shown that microdosing is largely ineffective (both for the neuroplasticity effects of psilocybin, but also on its effect on DMN; my hunch: the reasons are probably related, but I'm not a neuro scientist!)
- wyre 3y ago
  Do you have sources showing the ineffectiveness of microdosing? I don’t not believe you, but that is news to me. I believed microdosing is effective.
  - neom 3y ago
    There is some data, but not much and not very good, that microdosing probably helps alleviate anxiety. However, I think what isn't well understood is, is this like using a band-aid for cancer. In my personal discussions with folks who work around psychedelic assisted therapy, these folks seem to believe it's the trip that knocks you right, and microdosing can keep you right, but you need to start with the trip. I have no real opinion on this, seems plausible to me based on my own experimentation, but I don't know. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-01811-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-01811-4
  - spoiler 3y ago
    Yes! Here is some I managed to quickly dig up: - https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02876-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02876-5 - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33648632/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33648632/ - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6364961/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6364961/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34915762/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34915762/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/ BIG DISCLAIMER before you read the next bits: I'm not a researcher/scientist in this field, but psychedelics have helped me get a handle on CPTSD, process trauma. My take on this is that microdosing probably still has some acute benefits, since it still does alters brain chemistry. So, can it be helpful? Probably, but it should come with a big "YMMV" disclaimer. In the context of psilocybin, my understanding is that it doesn't give long-term benefits as a "macro" dose would like DMN regulation[1] and neuroplasticity[2]; a lot of people tend to attribute these to microdosing too, but apparently it's not the case[3]. Also, due to tolerance build up, so you start getting diminishing returns from microdosing, so it's not effective long-term (even with the Fadiman microdosing protocol where you take breaks; I think there's other protocols that claims to lessen the diminishing returns). I don't think LSD triggers these physiological changes in the brain, but it's believed it can helps with the psychological aspects. I don't take them regularly anymore (I used to take them every couple of months during a rough patch in my life, but I also did therapy on-and-off during that period too). I now take them every few years as to check-in with myself, or special occasions. [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10032309 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10032309 [2]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6082376 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6082376; I feel like there was a another study on this too, but I can't find it now, sorry! [3]: Only briefly discussed by Huberman in his podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIxVfln02Ss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIxVfln02Ss. I recommend watching the video in its entirety; it's great!
- bitfilped 3y ago
  Yes 100% agree, microdose has a specific meaning in the literature, that it is below active threshold. Please stop overloading this term to mean "I didn't take a very high active dose of a drug". You'll never microdose and have any apparent classical effects. At best you've have a quasi might have/mightn't have effects that can't specifically be pinned to the drug ingestion.
  - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
    My original comment had specifically meant "taking a dose which is barely noticeable" as a first time experience, e.g. 0.5 grams [vs "small"@2g; "heroic"@5g]. >You'll never microdose and have any apparent classical effects. This is incorrect, but probably only on a case-by-case basis (to each, his own).
    - bitfilped 3y ago
      "Taking a dose which is barely noticeable" is not a microdose, it's a low active dose.
      - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
        I think we're getting into "undefined semantics" here, so I'll share my own psilocybin dosing [260lb Male, 40]: <0.5g == microdose (you just feel happier, more connected) 0.5-2g == small dose (you definitely notice distortions/connections) 2-4g == normal dose (silliness, connectedness, impactful mental rearrangement) >5g == heroic dosing (you'd better be ready for visuals, tracers, and a few hours of helpful insanity) ---- Personally, I agree that the real therapy begins after your first normal dose; however, I would not start there, nor even with a small dose. Start slow, build up to the revelation. ---- Onwards, through the fog.
neom 3y ago
I cannot express how much I agree that psilocybin is a considerably better place to begin a journey like this. I can only speak for myself obviously, and I'm quite sure entheogens are a difficult thing to paint with broad strokes in, but if I were to, psilocybin being the best place to start is something I deeply believe. I would also add, if you are curious, be cautious, but don't be scared. :)
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  >if you are curious, be cautious, but don't be scared I suggested starting with a microdose, above, because for me it is one of those experiences which just helps me "be" [makes my attitude less shitty]. But as others have suggested, a smaller dose might be more appropriate for anybody looking for "an experience on psychedelics." ---- My absolute DO NOT recommendation: don't try any drug alone. When you're doing drugs alone (particularly first experimentations), you open yourself up to all sorts of gruesome outcomes (whether physical or mental).
janeerie 3y ago
I always hear about not taking psychedelics if you're not in a good place mentally, but then how could it possibly be a treatment for anxiety?
- bitcoin_anon 3y ago
  Traditionally, and what the current research is showing, is that these substances are treatments for not being in a good place, mentally.
  - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
    I just looked up "entheogen" (e.g. LSD, psilo, salvia, mescaline) in my personal dictionary and the origin is this: "Greek, literally becoming divine within." Just a perfectly-generated word, based on my own personal experiences of connecting with the above examples (except S. divinorum, which can go to hell (or take you there)).
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  Individuals should "put in some mental groundwork" in preparation of taking any entheogen; my best advice would be to use a spirit guide / healer for your first trip, particularly if you're extremely anxious. As example, I have previously been turned down [by a US MD] as "too anxious" to try legal ketamine-infusion therapy [immediately after loss of a parent]. In using a trained professional (e.g. see Oregon's new psilocybin guide certification) to help you determine your "use fitness," you can probably avoid a very bad experience...

spoiler 3y ago

I assume you don't mean a micro dose, but a smaller dose. The point of microdosing is to almost not feel the effects of the substance, and recent research has shown that microdosing is largely ineffective (both for the neuroplasticity effects of psilocybin, but also on its effect on DMN; my hunch: the reasons are probably related, but I'm not a neuro scientist!)

wyre 3y ago
Do you have sources showing the ineffectiveness of microdosing? I don’t not believe you, but that is news to me. I believed microdosing is effective.
- neom 3y ago
  There is some data, but not much and not very good, that microdosing probably helps alleviate anxiety. However, I think what isn't well understood is, is this like using a band-aid for cancer. In my personal discussions with folks who work around psychedelic assisted therapy, these folks seem to believe it's the trip that knocks you right, and microdosing can keep you right, but you need to start with the trip. I have no real opinion on this, seems plausible to me based on my own experimentation, but I don't know. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-01811-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-01811-4
- spoiler 3y ago
  Yes! Here is some I managed to quickly dig up: - https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02876-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02876-5 - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33648632/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33648632/ - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6364961/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6364961/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34915762/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34915762/ - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35918311/ BIG DISCLAIMER before you read the next bits: I'm not a researcher/scientist in this field, but psychedelics have helped me get a handle on CPTSD, process trauma. My take on this is that microdosing probably still has some acute benefits, since it still does alters brain chemistry. So, can it be helpful? Probably, but it should come with a big "YMMV" disclaimer. In the context of psilocybin, my understanding is that it doesn't give long-term benefits as a "macro" dose would like DMN regulation[1] and neuroplasticity[2]; a lot of people tend to attribute these to microdosing too, but apparently it's not the case[3]. Also, due to tolerance build up, so you start getting diminishing returns from microdosing, so it's not effective long-term (even with the Fadiman microdosing protocol where you take breaks; I think there's other protocols that claims to lessen the diminishing returns). I don't think LSD triggers these physiological changes in the brain, but it's believed it can helps with the psychological aspects. I don't take them regularly anymore (I used to take them every couple of months during a rough patch in my life, but I also did therapy on-and-off during that period too). I now take them every few years as to check-in with myself, or special occasions. [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10032309 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10032309 [2]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6082376 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6082376; I feel like there was a another study on this too, but I can't find it now, sorry! [3]: Only briefly discussed by Huberman in his podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIxVfln02Ss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIxVfln02Ss. I recommend watching the video in its entirety; it's great!
bitfilped 3y ago
Yes 100% agree, microdose has a specific meaning in the literature, that it is below active threshold. Please stop overloading this term to mean "I didn't take a very high active dose of a drug". You'll never microdose and have any apparent classical effects. At best you've have a quasi might have/mightn't have effects that can't specifically be pinned to the drug ingestion.
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  My original comment had specifically meant "taking a dose which is barely noticeable" as a first time experience, e.g. 0.5 grams [vs "small"@2g; "heroic"@5g]. >You'll never microdose and have any apparent classical effects. This is incorrect, but probably only on a case-by-case basis (to each, his own).
  - bitfilped 3y ago
    "Taking a dose which is barely noticeable" is not a microdose, it's a low active dose.
    - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
      I think we're getting into "undefined semantics" here, so I'll share my own psilocybin dosing [260lb Male, 40]: <0.5g == microdose (you just feel happier, more connected) 0.5-2g == small dose (you definitely notice distortions/connections) 2-4g == normal dose (silliness, connectedness, impactful mental rearrangement) >5g == heroic dosing (you'd better be ready for visuals, tracers, and a few hours of helpful insanity) ---- Personally, I agree that the real therapy begins after your first normal dose; however, I would not start there, nor even with a small dose. Start slow, build up to the revelation. ---- Onwards, through the fog.

neom 3y ago

I cannot express how much I agree that psilocybin is a considerably better place to begin a journey like this. I can only speak for myself obviously, and I'm quite sure entheogens are a difficult thing to paint with broad strokes in, but if I were to, psilocybin being the best place to start is something I deeply believe. I would also add, if you are curious, be cautious, but don't be scared. :)

ProllyInfamous 3y ago
>if you are curious, be cautious, but don't be scared I suggested starting with a microdose, above, because for me it is one of those experiences which just helps me "be" [makes my attitude less shitty]. But as others have suggested, a smaller dose might be more appropriate for anybody looking for "an experience on psychedelics." ---- My absolute DO NOT recommendation: don't try any drug alone. When you're doing drugs alone (particularly first experimentations), you open yourself up to all sorts of gruesome outcomes (whether physical or mental).

janeerie 3y ago

I always hear about not taking psychedelics if you're not in a good place mentally, but then how could it possibly be a treatment for anxiety?

bitcoin_anon 3y ago
Traditionally, and what the current research is showing, is that these substances are treatments for not being in a good place, mentally.
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  I just looked up "entheogen" (e.g. LSD, psilo, salvia, mescaline) in my personal dictionary and the origin is this: "Greek, literally becoming divine within." Just a perfectly-generated word, based on my own personal experiences of connecting with the above examples (except S. divinorum, which can go to hell (or take you there)).
ProllyInfamous 3y ago
Individuals should "put in some mental groundwork" in preparation of taking any entheogen; my best advice would be to use a spirit guide / healer for your first trip, particularly if you're extremely anxious. As example, I have previously been turned down [by a US MD] as "too anxious" to try legal ketamine-infusion therapy [immediately after loss of a parent]. In using a trained professional (e.g. see Oregon's new psilocybin guide certification) to help you determine your "use fitness," you can probably avoid a very bad experience...