4 ms·

> If you hire Chinese nationals in your tech company, you can be assured they are committing espionage Liberal principles dropped at the first sign of trouble?

kys_now 3y ago
[dead]
2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/counterintelligence/the-china-threat/chinese-talent-plans https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/counterintelligence/the-chin... > Talent plans can sometimes foster legitimate sharing and collaboration as part of an appropriate business arrangement or research exchange, but this is not the norm. > Instead, talent plans usually involve undisclosed and illegal transfers of information, technology, or intellectual property that are one-way and detrimental to U.S. institutions.
tristor 3y ago
What Liberal principle requires you to employ and inform your enemies who are actively engaging in espionage? I didn't say anything about Chinese /ethnicity/, only nationality. There are millions of ethnically Chinese people around the world who are not Chinese nationals and are not bound by the same legal framework.
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > employ and inform your enemies This is literally presumption of guilt based on where someone was born. It's the literal definition of prejudice. Very illiberal. Mind you, I am not claiming that you have to be liberal. I just want honesty and consistency. If we all oppose China because they threaten liberty, then we must protect liberty. But if you oppose China just because it's a pissing contest between superpowers, that's fine but then maybe it's not my problem.
  - tristor 3y ago
    > This is literally presumption of guilt based on where someone was born. Not where someone is born, but whom they owe allegiance to. If you do not discriminate based on someone's allegiances, then on what basis would you expect it to be appropriate to discriminate? The idea that all discrimination is immoral or unethical is not only suspect, it's clearly foolhardy. China is an enemy to everyone who is not China, they aren't even subtle about this. China only cares about China, and will sabotage or interrupt deals and commit espionage in order to get ahead. Anyone who owes allegiance to China is not a friend of the West, full stop. The West and the entities operating in it owe no benefit of the doubt or benefit at all towards anyone who has allegiance to China. China holds no such ridiculous notion as that they shouldn't discriminate based on allegiance, they make it clear you are either theirs or you are unwelcome. Note, I am also /not/ saying that China is necessarily doing anything immoral within their own framework here, I am simply observing that they are not, and have not been, any friend to the West, and they are clearly at this point our enemy. Just because they are our enemy does not mean that their behaviors aren't rational from their perspective or point of view and don't align with their own moral systems. We don't owe them any regard or benefit of the doubt however, as they are our enemy, and it's just as much not immoral for us to uphold ourselves against our enemies. > It's the literal definition of prejudice. Very illiberal. You and I have different definitions of prejudice and what it means to be Liberal. My definition of prejudice matches what's in the dictionary: noun 1. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. 2. An adverse judgment or opinion formed unfairly or without knowledge of the facts. 3. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular social group, such as a race or the adherents of a religion. Acting to protect yourself from an enemy and its nationals is not unreasonable, based on any unfairness, based on lack of knowledge of the facts, nor is it irrational, therefore the preconditions of prejudice aren't present. When you have a clear, rational, open basis for discrimination, it's not prejudicial, it's simply prudent.
    - hughesjj 3y ago
      Being born someone does not force you to have an undying allegiance to that place, what are you on about?

kys_now 3y ago

[dead]

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/counterintelligence/the-china-threat/chinese-talent-plans https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/counterintelligence/the-chin... > Talent plans can sometimes foster legitimate sharing and collaboration as part of an appropriate business arrangement or research exchange, but this is not the norm. > Instead, talent plans usually involve undisclosed and illegal transfers of information, technology, or intellectual property that are one-way and detrimental to U.S. institutions.

tristor 3y ago

What Liberal principle requires you to employ and inform your enemies who are actively engaging in espionage? I didn't say anything about Chinese /ethnicity/, only nationality. There are millions of ethnically Chinese people around the world who are not Chinese nationals and are not bound by the same legal framework.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> employ and inform your enemies This is literally presumption of guilt based on where someone was born. It's the literal definition of prejudice. Very illiberal. Mind you, I am not claiming that you have to be liberal. I just want honesty and consistency. If we all oppose China because they threaten liberty, then we must protect liberty. But if you oppose China just because it's a pissing contest between superpowers, that's fine but then maybe it's not my problem.
- tristor 3y ago
  > This is literally presumption of guilt based on where someone was born. Not where someone is born, but whom they owe allegiance to. If you do not discriminate based on someone's allegiances, then on what basis would you expect it to be appropriate to discriminate? The idea that all discrimination is immoral or unethical is not only suspect, it's clearly foolhardy. China is an enemy to everyone who is not China, they aren't even subtle about this. China only cares about China, and will sabotage or interrupt deals and commit espionage in order to get ahead. Anyone who owes allegiance to China is not a friend of the West, full stop. The West and the entities operating in it owe no benefit of the doubt or benefit at all towards anyone who has allegiance to China. China holds no such ridiculous notion as that they shouldn't discriminate based on allegiance, they make it clear you are either theirs or you are unwelcome. Note, I am also /not/ saying that China is necessarily doing anything immoral within their own framework here, I am simply observing that they are not, and have not been, any friend to the West, and they are clearly at this point our enemy. Just because they are our enemy does not mean that their behaviors aren't rational from their perspective or point of view and don't align with their own moral systems. We don't owe them any regard or benefit of the doubt however, as they are our enemy, and it's just as much not immoral for us to uphold ourselves against our enemies. > It's the literal definition of prejudice. Very illiberal. You and I have different definitions of prejudice and what it means to be Liberal. My definition of prejudice matches what's in the dictionary: noun 1. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. 2. An adverse judgment or opinion formed unfairly or without knowledge of the facts. 3. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular social group, such as a race or the adherents of a religion. Acting to protect yourself from an enemy and its nationals is not unreasonable, based on any unfairness, based on lack of knowledge of the facts, nor is it irrational, therefore the preconditions of prejudice aren't present. When you have a clear, rational, open basis for discrimination, it's not prejudicial, it's simply prudent.
  - hughesjj 3y ago
    Being born someone does not force you to have an undying allegiance to that place, what are you on about?