18 ms·

Wtf, sure we need to be cognizant of discrimination against men in our society, and I think there are great arguments to be made that men are generally portraye

by redwood 14y ago

Wtf, sure we need to be cognizant of discrimination against men in our society, and I think there are great arguments to be made that men are generally portrayed as dumb in TV shows, for example. However we cannot equate men's and women's experiences of the world we live in. I want to, and have the mistake of doing so many times, but I've since seen how wrong I've been. My female friend told me the following which radically transformed my perspective Ask any group of women "What do you do to protect yourself in your daily life?" Dome typical answers - never walk alone at night - hold car keys out while walking to car so you can open car door quickly - do not make eye contact or smile to strangers at night - do not go to bars or clubs alone - carry money in bra in case bag is taken - never put down your drink - the list goes on and on Women's life experiences are thus characterized by a constant and unending fear of sexual assault. When you ask men the same question---to list what they do to protect themselves in their daily life... --> the answer is just about nothing. We men walk around like we own urban environments. We have very little to lose and we have a lot of fun with it all. However we have a major bias that we need to be aware of: women are raised to be in constant fear, a fear they don't share with us. This has tremendous implications throughout life. Also this is only one example of a difference in life experience between men and women. There are of course many more.

danso 14y ago
Great points. Just had to say: I've heard that holding car keys at the ready is also intended as a impromptu sharp weapon to an attacker's face/eyes. Which only underscores your general point
- Ixiaus 14y ago
  That actually is the reason why you hold your car keys. It's less of a "being able to get in the car quickly" and more about being able to "gouge their eye out".
sigmaxipi 14y ago
>Women's life experiences are thus characterized by a constant and unending fear of sexual assault. >When you ask men the same question---to list what they do to protect themselves in their daily life... --> the answer is just about nothing. Why is this fear a bad thing for women? Interesting fact: men are more likely to be victims of violent crime[1] and this has been pretty much true throughout history[2] though it is getting better. That fear is probably quite useful in keeping them alive since women are only half as likely to be victims of assaults by strangers[3] [1] http://web.archive.org/web/20060926004448/http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/vsx2.htm http://web.archive.org/web/20060926004448/http://www.ojp.usd... [2] http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violen... [3] http://web.archive.org/web/20060927115258/http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/sdvv.txt http://web.archive.org/web/20060927115258/http://www.ojp.usd...
- wpietri 14y ago
  This is excellent advice -- for women roaming free on our ancestral savanna. For those of us, though, who are collaborating on this whole civilization thing, high levels of fear are bad. Especially well-justified fears that keep people from participating fully in society.
  - icebraining 14y ago
    Doesn't the satistics prove the fear is not well-justified? Unfortunately, women should fear men they know more than strangers.
    - wpietri 14y ago
      Who said that the fear isn't justified? The problem being pointed out is exactly that the fear is justified. It is fucked up beyond belief that half of our population has, as the parent post puts it, "a constant and unending fear of sexual assault."
- tomwalker 14y ago
  This is true. I have worked in emergency medicine, dealing with all types of assault, and females are rarely assaulted compared to men. When they are it is often by someone they know and usually another female. Random assault on a female is front page news, for a male its socially acceptable!
- redwood 14y ago
  While the fear may mean better survival skills its important to be cognizant of this significant difference between men's and women's life experiences if we're to grok their lives better. This is especially important for big guys (>6') to remember: that their daily experience is nothing like women.
tomjen3 14y ago
That's not exactly mens fault though. It is the fault of whomever creates the one in four women will be raped statistic (which is clearly bullshit). For any females reading this, while plenty of males will want to get into your pants very few males can stomach the idea of rape, so if you feel threatened seek other males. It doesn't matter much if you know them or not.
- adrianhoward 14y ago
  That's not exactly mens fault though. It is the fault of whomever creates the one in four women will be raped statistic (which is clearly bullshit). The 1/4 number in the USA that's usually quoted is for rape and attempted rape. For an explanation of where the 1/4 number came from in the US - read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#United_States. I'd be interested in which part of the methodologies of the four different studies done by separate groups - one in 1987, one in 1995, one in 2000, and one in 2006 - you think is bullshit. Even if you ignore the "attempted" the numbers that have come from multiple pieces of research in the US and UK of somewhere between 1/5 and 1/20 of women who will be raped isn't exactly reassuring either. Unfortunately from the number of women I know well enough for the conversation topic to have come up I can easily believe that the higher numbers are much closer to reality than the low. For any females reading this, while plenty of males will want to get into your pants very few males can stomach the idea of rape, so if you feel threatened seek other males. It doesn't matter much if you know them or not. Unfortunately most rapes happen in environments where other males aren't around.
  - tomjen3 14y ago
    Best debunk I have read (the statistics start about halfway into the article): http://owningyourshit.blogspot.com/2011/06/how-feminism-hates-women.html http://owningyourshit.blogspot.com/2011/06/how-feminism-hate... Note that the author is female and has been sexually assaulted (read attempted rape in a park).
  - roguecoder 14y ago
    More than that, studies find that between 6% and 13% of men admit to having raped women, with an average of ~5 women raped each: http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/03/25/predator-theory/ http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/03/25/predator-th... 1 in 4 is not unrealistic, even assuming some women are significantly more likely to be victimized than others.
tomp 14y ago
> When you ask men the same question [...] the answer is just about nothing. From my personal experience, men are much more vulnerable than women. A lot of my friends got assaulted/beaten up (me included) (some multiple times), and it's always been in public, either in clubs or even in broad daylight on a busy street! As you stated above, women can protect themselves in very simple ways: stay with other people, and watch what you're eating. For men, it's almost impossible to protect ourselves, except by being physically bigger and stronger (or by being armed/better at fighting, but that might cause some legal problems). So, we do basically nothing to "protect ourselves" in daily life, because there is nothing we can do, the most we can do is to try not to elevate the situation if things get heated/if you meet a violent idiot somewhere. I'm not trying to downplay the dangers women face in our society. It's just obvious to me that whenever someone says that women are endangered without saying that men are too, they are much more motivated by discrimination against men than by making this society better & safer.
- kejmen 14y ago
  You sound like a jerk, that's why you and your jerk friends got beaten up. Why couldn't man and women protect themselves the same way? And WTF does it mean "women can protect themselves in very simple ways: stay with other people, and watch what you're eating."
  - JanezStupar 14y ago
    You obviously never got assaulted by strangers for just passing by?
    - kejmen 14y ago
      No, you obviously got because Slovenia is real ghetto.
      - JanezStupar 14y ago
        What exactly is your point? That people don't get assaulted elsewhere? Or that in Slovenia bystanders never get under attack? And finally, how the hell have you deduced that I got attacked in Slovenia?

by redwood 14y ago

danso 14y ago

Great points. Just had to say: I've heard that holding car keys at the ready is also intended as a impromptu sharp weapon to an attacker's face/eyes. Which only underscores your general point

Ixiaus 14y ago
That actually is the reason why you hold your car keys. It's less of a "being able to get in the car quickly" and more about being able to "gouge their eye out".

sigmaxipi 14y ago

>Women's life experiences are thus characterized by a constant and unending fear of sexual assault. >When you ask men the same question---to list what they do to protect themselves in their daily life... --> the answer is just about nothing. Why is this fear a bad thing for women? Interesting fact: men are more likely to be victims of violent crime[1] and this has been pretty much true throughout history[2] though it is getting better. That fear is probably quite useful in keeping them alive since women are only half as likely to be victims of assaults by strangers[3] [1] http://web.archive.org/web/20060926004448/http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/vsx2.htm http://web.archive.org/web/20060926004448/http://www.ojp.usd... [2] http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violen... [3] http://web.archive.org/web/20060927115258/http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/sdvv.txt http://web.archive.org/web/20060927115258/http://www.ojp.usd...

wpietri 14y ago
This is excellent advice -- for women roaming free on our ancestral savanna. For those of us, though, who are collaborating on this whole civilization thing, high levels of fear are bad. Especially well-justified fears that keep people from participating fully in society.
- icebraining 14y ago
  Doesn't the satistics prove the fear is not well-justified? Unfortunately, women should fear men they know more than strangers.
  - wpietri 14y ago
    Who said that the fear isn't justified? The problem being pointed out is exactly that the fear is justified. It is fucked up beyond belief that half of our population has, as the parent post puts it, "a constant and unending fear of sexual assault."
tomwalker 14y ago
This is true. I have worked in emergency medicine, dealing with all types of assault, and females are rarely assaulted compared to men. When they are it is often by someone they know and usually another female. Random assault on a female is front page news, for a male its socially acceptable!
redwood 14y ago
While the fear may mean better survival skills its important to be cognizant of this significant difference between men's and women's life experiences if we're to grok their lives better. This is especially important for big guys (>6') to remember: that their daily experience is nothing like women.

tomjen3 14y ago

That's not exactly mens fault though. It is the fault of whomever creates the one in four women will be raped statistic (which is clearly bullshit). For any females reading this, while plenty of males will want to get into your pants very few males can stomach the idea of rape, so if you feel threatened seek other males. It doesn't matter much if you know them or not.

adrianhoward 14y ago
That's not exactly mens fault though. It is the fault of whomever creates the one in four women will be raped statistic (which is clearly bullshit). The 1/4 number in the USA that's usually quoted is for rape and attempted rape. For an explanation of where the 1/4 number came from in the US - read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#United_States. I'd be interested in which part of the methodologies of the four different studies done by separate groups - one in 1987, one in 1995, one in 2000, and one in 2006 - you think is bullshit. Even if you ignore the "attempted" the numbers that have come from multiple pieces of research in the US and UK of somewhere between 1/5 and 1/20 of women who will be raped isn't exactly reassuring either. Unfortunately from the number of women I know well enough for the conversation topic to have come up I can easily believe that the higher numbers are much closer to reality than the low. For any females reading this, while plenty of males will want to get into your pants very few males can stomach the idea of rape, so if you feel threatened seek other males. It doesn't matter much if you know them or not. Unfortunately most rapes happen in environments where other males aren't around.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  Best debunk I have read (the statistics start about halfway into the article): http://owningyourshit.blogspot.com/2011/06/how-feminism-hates-women.html http://owningyourshit.blogspot.com/2011/06/how-feminism-hate... Note that the author is female and has been sexually assaulted (read attempted rape in a park).
- roguecoder 14y ago
  More than that, studies find that between 6% and 13% of men admit to having raped women, with an average of ~5 women raped each: http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/03/25/predator-theory/ http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/03/25/predator-th... 1 in 4 is not unrealistic, even assuming some women are significantly more likely to be victimized than others.

tomp 14y ago

> When you ask men the same question [...] the answer is just about nothing. From my personal experience, men are much more vulnerable than women. A lot of my friends got assaulted/beaten up (me included) (some multiple times), and it's always been in public, either in clubs or even in broad daylight on a busy street! As you stated above, women can protect themselves in very simple ways: stay with other people, and watch what you're eating. For men, it's almost impossible to protect ourselves, except by being physically bigger and stronger (or by being armed/better at fighting, but that might cause some legal problems). So, we do basically nothing to "protect ourselves" in daily life, because there is nothing we can do, the most we can do is to try not to elevate the situation if things get heated/if you meet a violent idiot somewhere. I'm not trying to downplay the dangers women face in our society. It's just obvious to me that whenever someone says that women are endangered without saying that men are too, they are much more motivated by discrimination against men than by making this society better & safer.

kejmen 14y ago
You sound like a jerk, that's why you and your jerk friends got beaten up. Why couldn't man and women protect themselves the same way? And WTF does it mean "women can protect themselves in very simple ways: stay with other people, and watch what you're eating."
- JanezStupar 14y ago
  You obviously never got assaulted by strangers for just passing by?
  - kejmen 14y ago
    No, you obviously got because Slovenia is real ghetto.
    - JanezStupar 14y ago
      What exactly is your point? That people don't get assaulted elsewhere? Or that in Slovenia bystanders never get under attack? And finally, how the hell have you deduced that I got attacked in Slovenia?