5 ms·

What is your argument for why it's not ready for prime time?

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
It is perhaps worth pointing out that most of the rest of this comment section is people either saying how great it is that this progress is being made... or describing all the fun little ways that Wayland still breaks things for them. I suppose it depends on what you mean by ready for prime time, but "still breaks things" seems like a defensible position.
- infamouscow 3y ago
  The Wayland maintainers also maintained X and have been saying they need help for over a decade. Nobody stepped up.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    I don't see the connection? It's perfectly possible for X to have been an awful mess internally and Wayland to be buggy and feature incomplete for users; neither of those claims contradicts the other
    - infamouscow 3y ago
      Since nobody wants to maintain Xorg anymore, every new CVE puts pressure on distros to also drop support.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
        Okay? Even taken at face value, that still doesn't seem relevant; no amount of X code rot, vulnerabilities, or lack of new features will make Wayland stop being buggy or give it the features it didn't pick up in the first 13 years of its existence. I'm not arguing how bad Xorg is internally, I'm telling you that to users Wayland is still worse. Well, for a noticeable fraction of users; the users who aren't affected by the bugs or missing features seem happy.
        infamouscow 3y ago
        I'm sorry, but the users really only have themselves to blame. The Xorg maintainers have been abundantly clear about this transition for longer than most on this board have been writing code. Virtually every single program that doesn't work on Wayland is a result of the collective laziness of the userbase for a decade, deciding to fallback to X11 rather than fix problems or be a forcing function to pressure companies to fix software. You're not entitled to the free labor of open source project maintainers. I don't understand why this is so difficult for some people to grasp.

It is perhaps worth pointing out that most of the rest of this comment section is people either saying how great it is that this progress is being made... or describing all the fun little ways that Wayland still breaks things for them. I suppose it depends on what you mean by ready for prime time, but "still breaks things" seems like a defensible position.

infamouscow 3y ago
The Wayland maintainers also maintained X and have been saying they need help for over a decade. Nobody stepped up.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  I don't see the connection? It's perfectly possible for X to have been an awful mess internally and Wayland to be buggy and feature incomplete for users; neither of those claims contradicts the other
  - infamouscow 3y ago
    Since nobody wants to maintain Xorg anymore, every new CVE puts pressure on distros to also drop support.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
      Okay? Even taken at face value, that still doesn't seem relevant; no amount of X code rot, vulnerabilities, or lack of new features will make Wayland stop being buggy or give it the features it didn't pick up in the first 13 years of its existence. I'm not arguing how bad Xorg is internally, I'm telling you that to users Wayland is still worse. Well, for a noticeable fraction of users; the users who aren't affected by the bugs or missing features seem happy.
      - infamouscow 3y ago
        I'm sorry, but the users really only have themselves to blame. The Xorg maintainers have been abundantly clear about this transition for longer than most on this board have been writing code. Virtually every single program that doesn't work on Wayland is a result of the collective laziness of the userbase for a decade, deciding to fallback to X11 rather than fix problems or be a forcing function to pressure companies to fix software. You're not entitled to the free labor of open source project maintainers. I don't understand why this is so difficult for some people to grasp.