5 ms·

Although Wayland is more modern, it’s been nothing but trouble for me on older hardware (and even some new hardware). I’d prefer non-smooth scrolling any day o

by 1-6 3y ago

Although Wayland is more modern, it’s been nothing but trouble for me on older hardware (and even some new hardware). I’d prefer non-smooth scrolling any day over a computer screen that doesn’t come back after sleep.

dralley 3y ago
> a computer screen that doesn’t come back after sleep Given all of the known issues with "modern sleep" in modern laptops, I'd hesitate to blame this on Wayland. Sounds more like a driver problem. When PulseAudio took over, a lot of "PulseAudio problems" were actually bugs in audio drivers that had previously been papered over but were now exposed. Not to say that PulseAudio was perfect in those days, but it got a lot of blame for things that weren't their fault. Wayland seems to be in a similar position sometimes. I get that people don't care all that much about the distinctions if "Xorg" works for them and "Wayland" is broken, but they do still exist.
- ParetoOptimal 3y ago
  > Given all of the known issues with "modern sleep" in modern laptops, I'd hesitate to blame this Wayland. Sounds more like a driver problem. I was about to post "then why does sleep work fine for X11" but I think I recently had issues with it as well. There was a piece of time though where sleep worked fine on X11 and not on wayland for the same device. It could be the nvidia driver at fault once again though, I'll have to retest things and see if both work with Nouveau. Also Wayland is fixing it, but FPS games are buggier and have much higher frametime latency by default. After disabling compositor, the frametime latency is only slightly higher but I get weird frame glitches/flickering. Everything else Wayland works great for and in the case of waydroid gives extra features, but having everything work and be stable is a lot of stress off my plate.
- circusfly 3y ago
  > Given all of the known issues with "modern sleep" in modern laptops I don't use sleep or hibernate, not even on work Windows laptops, there's always some ensuing flakiness that occurs. My machines are either running or shutdown.
  - cogman10 3y ago
    I had to tweek several settings, but now sleep works fine for me on Linux. It's pretty nice being about to strike a key and have my desktop on instantly.
- tigeroil 3y ago
  Funnily enough I had a similar issue that only occurred after switching to Wayland, that turned out to be due to a bad DisplayPort to HDMI adaptor. Replaced it with a new one and it now works fine.
- nottorp 3y ago
  Yeah that attitude gave us that piece of art called systemd. Last week a secondary hard drive from a headless machine of mine croaked. Guess what, the whole machine refused to boot and be accessible by ssh in spite of the boot/OS disk being a-ok. I had to plug in a monitor and keyboard for no good reason. You're probably going to blame Ubuntu, I guess...
  - russfink 3y ago
    Usually, give it enough time - eg 90 seconds - and things will time out and recover from errors.
    - nottorp 3y ago
      No, it refused to continue booting. Had to press something on the keyboard to get a "recovery something" prompt. I waited for 15 minutes... twice... it was a pain to drag a monitor close enough.
- Gigachad 3y ago
  Macbooks are the only devices I've seen return from sleep properly. Windows and linux devices all seem to be filled with issues. I'd sooner blame the actual hardware than wayland.
cogman10 3y ago
Ah, Nvidia drivers There's a bunch of settings that need tweaking and that aren't on by default. It's very annoying. Here's the document to resolve them. https://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/460.67/README/powermanagement.html https://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/460.67/READ...
- bloopernova 3y ago
  If you're not suspending or hibernating, do you need any of those settings?
  - cogman10 3y ago
    You do not. It's only if you want to sleep you computer.
    - bloopernova 3y ago
      Awesome, thank you. I was worried my question came across as combative but I only realized that after the edit window had passed.
      - cogman10 3y ago
        No worries. I took it as a genuine question. The settings control how the card interacts with the sleep signal. The default behavior for Nvidia is to do nothing which results in memory corruption when the computer wakes up again. If you never put your computer to sleep, it'll never get that sleep signal so there's no real issue. I'm not sure if I trust hibernation though, I've not tried it. Sleep has been just fine and doesn't eat too much power (like 5 watts for my desktop)
- CoastalCoder 3y ago
  Related: https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/not-coming-back-from-suspend/176446/6 https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/not-coming-back-from-s...

by 1-6 3y ago

dralley 3y ago

> a computer screen that doesn’t come back after sleep Given all of the known issues with "modern sleep" in modern laptops, I'd hesitate to blame this on Wayland. Sounds more like a driver problem. When PulseAudio took over, a lot of "PulseAudio problems" were actually bugs in audio drivers that had previously been papered over but were now exposed. Not to say that PulseAudio was perfect in those days, but it got a lot of blame for things that weren't their fault. Wayland seems to be in a similar position sometimes. I get that people don't care all that much about the distinctions if "Xorg" works for them and "Wayland" is broken, but they do still exist.

ParetoOptimal 3y ago
> Given all of the known issues with "modern sleep" in modern laptops, I'd hesitate to blame this Wayland. Sounds more like a driver problem. I was about to post "then why does sleep work fine for X11" but I think I recently had issues with it as well. There was a piece of time though where sleep worked fine on X11 and not on wayland for the same device. It could be the nvidia driver at fault once again though, I'll have to retest things and see if both work with Nouveau. Also Wayland is fixing it, but FPS games are buggier and have much higher frametime latency by default. After disabling compositor, the frametime latency is only slightly higher but I get weird frame glitches/flickering. Everything else Wayland works great for and in the case of waydroid gives extra features, but having everything work and be stable is a lot of stress off my plate.
circusfly 3y ago
> Given all of the known issues with "modern sleep" in modern laptops I don't use sleep or hibernate, not even on work Windows laptops, there's always some ensuing flakiness that occurs. My machines are either running or shutdown.
- cogman10 3y ago
  I had to tweek several settings, but now sleep works fine for me on Linux. It's pretty nice being about to strike a key and have my desktop on instantly.
tigeroil 3y ago
Funnily enough I had a similar issue that only occurred after switching to Wayland, that turned out to be due to a bad DisplayPort to HDMI adaptor. Replaced it with a new one and it now works fine.
nottorp 3y ago
Yeah that attitude gave us that piece of art called systemd. Last week a secondary hard drive from a headless machine of mine croaked. Guess what, the whole machine refused to boot and be accessible by ssh in spite of the boot/OS disk being a-ok. I had to plug in a monitor and keyboard for no good reason. You're probably going to blame Ubuntu, I guess...
- russfink 3y ago
  Usually, give it enough time - eg 90 seconds - and things will time out and recover from errors.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    No, it refused to continue booting. Had to press something on the keyboard to get a "recovery something" prompt. I waited for 15 minutes... twice... it was a pain to drag a monitor close enough.
Gigachad 3y ago
Macbooks are the only devices I've seen return from sleep properly. Windows and linux devices all seem to be filled with issues. I'd sooner blame the actual hardware than wayland.

cogman10 3y ago

Ah, Nvidia drivers There's a bunch of settings that need tweaking and that aren't on by default. It's very annoying. Here's the document to resolve them. https://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/460.67/README/powermanagement.html https://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/460.67/READ...

bloopernova 3y ago
If you're not suspending or hibernating, do you need any of those settings?
- cogman10 3y ago
  You do not. It's only if you want to sleep you computer.
  - bloopernova 3y ago
    Awesome, thank you. I was worried my question came across as combative but I only realized that after the edit window had passed.
    - cogman10 3y ago
      No worries. I took it as a genuine question. The settings control how the card interacts with the sleep signal. The default behavior for Nvidia is to do nothing which results in memory corruption when the computer wakes up again. If you never put your computer to sleep, it'll never get that sleep signal so there's no real issue. I'm not sure if I trust hibernation though, I've not tried it. Sleep has been just fine and doesn't eat too much power (like 5 watts for my desktop)
CoastalCoder 3y ago
Related: https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/not-coming-back-from-suspend/176446/6 https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/not-coming-back-from-s...