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There's a lot of truth in this, but I struggle with the conclusion of "avoid stupid (destructive) people at all costs." While I don't doubt this is best for pe

There's a lot of truth in this, but I struggle with the conclusion of "avoid stupid (destructive) people at all costs." While I don't doubt this is best for personal satisfaction and sanity, it feels lacking in compassion. An example: I have teenage children, and they have some friends in school who fit the stupid description from the article (destructive behaviors). They grew up in unstable homes and didn't have good relationships / behaviors to learn from. My kids recognize their friends' poor decision making, and are sometimes dumbfounded by their behavior. It gives my kids a realistic view into the lives of others. Also, even destructive people aren't destructive all the time (at least at that point cutting ties is the obvious choice). It would be easier, and perhaps safer, to push my children to not associate with them - is that really the best policy?

rayiner 3y ago
> It would be easier, and perhaps safer, to push my children to not associate with them - is that really the best policy? Yes, because a child's peers have more influence on their development than your parenting: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200809/the-50-0-50-rule-why-parenting-has-virtually-no-effect https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-scientific-funda... "Behavior geneticists contend that the rough rule of thumb when it comes to the determinants of child development is 50-0-50, that is, roughly 50% of the variance in personality, behavior, and other traits is heritable (influenced by genes), roughly 0% by the shared environment (what happens within the family and is experienced by all siblings), and roughly 50% by the nonshared environment (what happens inside and outside of the family, not shared by siblings)." As an adult, you might be able to compartmentalize dysfunctional people and evaluate their behavior in a neutral manner. But children are not rational like adults. Their frontal cortex isn't fully developed until their mid-20s.
- JamesBarney 3y ago
  Yeah, to expand on this, peer groups probably have a larger impact on your child's outcome than parenting when looking at a long enough time horizon.
lbhdc 3y ago
When I was growing up, my friends and I recognized something about different groups of people. If everyone in your friend group has been to jail, the chance of you going is higher than normal. Pushing away everyone deemed to be stupid will be a lonely path, but it seems like there is some room in there to push some of those people away.
low_tech_love 3y ago
I'd say definitely yes, it would be better if they did not associate, but I'm not sure if you pushing or not will work. So maybe you pushing will actually make them get even closer to the undesirable friends. But you could maybe talk to them and try to show them that it is not a good idea. Observing other persons' behaviors and reasoning about them being good or bad is not the same as associating with them. You can observe and learn; you don't need to necessarily bring them into your home or have them around you all the time. Not everyone deserves empathy, that is absurd and it's actually inhuman; if you believe that you yourself has the duty to show empathy to everyone, regardless of whatever they do, you are assuming an unrealistic responsibility on your back and setting yourself up for failure, confusion, and constant disappointment. As a human being, and individual, and a small cog on the big social system, you have not only the right but maybe the duty (?) to reason about other people's behaviors, make conclusions and take decisions that are at your reach, as an individual human being (and not above). I come from a poor family from a weird small town in the middle of a poor country hundreds of kilometers away from any kind of interesting or relevant cultural/social center. I made it out and ended up in quite a nice place (at an international level) and I believe that it was in a big part due to me being very selective about the people I decided to be around with. That may sound elitist, but it's not at all; I made these decisions on my own, I chose those who did me good and those who didn't. By pushing the harmful people away from me I think I had much more space on my mind and my time to spend on things that rewarded me best. Whenever I get in touch with the guys who stayed behind that belief just intensifies. Everyone who is around you affects you, invariably, so it's up to you to manage that, nobody else.

rayiner 3y ago

> It would be easier, and perhaps safer, to push my children to not associate with them - is that really the best policy? Yes, because a child's peers have more influence on their development than your parenting: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200809/the-50-0-50-rule-why-parenting-has-virtually-no-effect https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-scientific-funda... "Behavior geneticists contend that the rough rule of thumb when it comes to the determinants of child development is 50-0-50, that is, roughly 50% of the variance in personality, behavior, and other traits is heritable (influenced by genes), roughly 0% by the shared environment (what happens within the family and is experienced by all siblings), and roughly 50% by the nonshared environment (what happens inside and outside of the family, not shared by siblings)." As an adult, you might be able to compartmentalize dysfunctional people and evaluate their behavior in a neutral manner. But children are not rational like adults. Their frontal cortex isn't fully developed until their mid-20s.

JamesBarney 3y ago
Yeah, to expand on this, peer groups probably have a larger impact on your child's outcome than parenting when looking at a long enough time horizon.

lbhdc 3y ago

When I was growing up, my friends and I recognized something about different groups of people. If everyone in your friend group has been to jail, the chance of you going is higher than normal. Pushing away everyone deemed to be stupid will be a lonely path, but it seems like there is some room in there to push some of those people away.

low_tech_love 3y ago

I'd say definitely yes, it would be better if they did not associate, but I'm not sure if you pushing or not will work. So maybe you pushing will actually make them get even closer to the undesirable friends. But you could maybe talk to them and try to show them that it is not a good idea. Observing other persons' behaviors and reasoning about them being good or bad is not the same as associating with them. You can observe and learn; you don't need to necessarily bring them into your home or have them around you all the time. Not everyone deserves empathy, that is absurd and it's actually inhuman; if you believe that you yourself has the duty to show empathy to everyone, regardless of whatever they do, you are assuming an unrealistic responsibility on your back and setting yourself up for failure, confusion, and constant disappointment. As a human being, and individual, and a small cog on the big social system, you have not only the right but maybe the duty (?) to reason about other people's behaviors, make conclusions and take decisions that are at your reach, as an individual human being (and not above). I come from a poor family from a weird small town in the middle of a poor country hundreds of kilometers away from any kind of interesting or relevant cultural/social center. I made it out and ended up in quite a nice place (at an international level) and I believe that it was in a big part due to me being very selective about the people I decided to be around with. That may sound elitist, but it's not at all; I made these decisions on my own, I chose those who did me good and those who didn't. By pushing the harmful people away from me I think I had much more space on my mind and my time to spend on things that rewarded me best. Whenever I get in touch with the guys who stayed behind that belief just intensifies. Everyone who is around you affects you, invariably, so it's up to you to manage that, nobody else.