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Programming is the only profession I know of where people do these ritual put downs of themselves and their work. “Programming isn’t hard” “Anyone can learn t

Programming is the only profession I know of where people do these ritual put downs of themselves and their work. “Programming isn’t hard” “Anyone can learn to code” “Programming is modern day plumbing” “I’m really stupid and a professional programmer, it must be a dumb profession” This post feels especially jaded and anti-intellectual. Writing simple code isn’t stupid, why be so harsh on yourself?

nalgeon 3y ago
I never said anything like that in the post. And I never said that writing simple code is stupid.
- lproven 3y ago
  I thought it was a superb and very important essay. I really liked it and I have shared it widely. I find it very sad that so many people, including the majority of the comments here, did not understand what you were saying, and either totally misinterpret the whole thing, or pick on minor unimportant details and misunderstand them. Thank you for writing it.
- subjectsigma 3y ago
  What am I supposed to take away from this then? > I haven't been diagnosed with any specific medical condition, but my mental capacity is very limited. … So what do I do about it? I use the simplest mainstream language available (Go) and very basic Python.
  - ninetyninenine 3y ago
    I think and I don't speak for him, but he's saying he writes simple code because he's stupid, which is different from saying simple code is stupid, because smart people can also choose to write simple code. Op may be too harsh on himself but it's an open possibility that he may also be honest and accurate in his own self assessment.
    - subjectsigma 3y ago
      If that’s what he is saying this is probably the worst possible way he could have done it
  - nalgeon 3y ago
    Definitely not "simple code is stupid".
    - subjectsigma 3y ago
      Ok well you should work on your writing then because it sucks and doesn’t communicate your points well. If I said “The sky is blue today. So, I went outside.” You would probably be surprised to learn that I hate clear weather and prefer the rain. Because, that would violate the most implicit, obvious assumption in my statement… Likewise you saying “I’m mentally deficient. So I have to use Go” makes it seem pretty fucking obvious to me what you think about Go programmers and programming in general
      - lproven 3y ago
        You've totally failed to understand what the essay is about, and you are angrily trying to argue your incorrect understanding with the author when it is not what he said.
      - nalgeon 3y ago
        It's good to know I'm not the only one who has trouble with basic logical reasoning!
        subjectsigma 3y ago
        Shit, maybe I should have taken your post literally, you do seem like an idiot.
ninetyninenine 3y ago
I think he's being self aware and honest. I seem mean here but I'm more just trying to be honest. The telling metric is his leet code performance. I'm positive he can be a good programmer in what he does but there are definitely smarter programmers then him in the world. Faang companies will filter for this and despite that I still think he may be able to train himself to do better on leetcode. But performance on leetcode does correlate with IQ and general intelligence. You would be dishonest with yourself if you can't accept that.
- dartos 3y ago
  > leetcode correlate with IQ and general intelligence Links? Kind of sounds like something you just have a gut feeling on.
  - afpx 3y ago
    Yeah, apparently I have a very high IQ but I still suck at programming. I often wonder if they tested me wrong, but I was tested twice. IDK Anyone else like this? Maybe I have a learning disability or something.
    - ninetyninenine 3y ago
      I've heard of this. Dyslexia maybe?
    - pavel_lishin 3y ago
      I have an above-average IQ, but there are certain things that I find very hard that are easy for other people. IQ isn't a universal "you're good at everything" score, even if it was an objectively good measure of intellience.
      - ninetyninenine 3y ago
        101 is above average 110 is where there should be notable advantage in more things as it's 1 std above the norm. The higher your IQ the more and more universal it tends to become. So at say 150 you would notice that you would find most tasks easier then most people then say 110 where you would find less tasks more easier.
kys_now 3y ago
[dead]
lsofzz 3y ago
> This post feels especially jaded and anti-intellectual. Writing simple code isn’t stupid, why be so harsh on yourself? The reason I think self-critique takes a rather extreme turn is because of anxiety. If we analyse the root cause, there may be more than _just_ anxiety at play but I do feel it plays a significant role(IANAD though; just an observer). Every programmer first and foremost are humans. And as humans, we are bounded by the highs and lows of the software we develop. Some of the low self-esteem can come because _life_; some might be because they hold their bar too high to achieve dramatically; some because, they might think of engineering software as an easy-peasy task but find that it can _sometime_ come with unseen/unheard baggages; all or partial part of the aforementioned causes could lead further to be in said state of mind. To some extent, we(as in software people) need to be brave, hold our self beliefs/values, try to elevate our self-esteem and recommend our friends/family/colleagues to do the same. It's this collective esteem that will carry us together in this journey. It's not easy to overcome fear, anxiety, depression or any other state of mind(IANAD though; just an observer). I am cognisant of the fact that it is definitely easier said than done but do note that humans are capable of achieving marvelous things both intellectually and viscerally. Perhaps, try to be social, go out and about, have hobbies, meditation, hiking, exercise - just to name a few that helped others I have met. Last but not the least, I cannot let myself buy the argument that someone thinks of themselves as dumb. It's extremely more likely that one has not had the opportunity to have the __foundational__ understanding and the shift required to think laterally in those terms. To acquire those, perhaps try to read more books and experiment more. These are more valuable use of time IMHO than to be harsh on oneself. But, to re-iterate, we are all humans at the end of the day. https://bluehackers.org/ https://bluehackers.org/
yungporko 3y ago
there's nothing like that in the article, he's just outlining the things he does to compensate for his perceived low intelligence. you clearly came in here with an axe to grind based on your other replies but this blog post is not the reason your feelings are hurt.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- subjectsigma 3y ago
  My comment(s): “I don’t like this here is why” Your comment: “No you’re wrong because I don’t like your tone” Next time you comment, can you say something intelligent or at least relevant to the discussion?

nalgeon 3y ago

I never said anything like that in the post. And I never said that writing simple code is stupid.

lproven 3y ago
I thought it was a superb and very important essay. I really liked it and I have shared it widely. I find it very sad that so many people, including the majority of the comments here, did not understand what you were saying, and either totally misinterpret the whole thing, or pick on minor unimportant details and misunderstand them. Thank you for writing it.
subjectsigma 3y ago
What am I supposed to take away from this then? > I haven't been diagnosed with any specific medical condition, but my mental capacity is very limited. … So what do I do about it? I use the simplest mainstream language available (Go) and very basic Python.
- ninetyninenine 3y ago
  I think and I don't speak for him, but he's saying he writes simple code because he's stupid, which is different from saying simple code is stupid, because smart people can also choose to write simple code. Op may be too harsh on himself but it's an open possibility that he may also be honest and accurate in his own self assessment.
  - subjectsigma 3y ago
    If that’s what he is saying this is probably the worst possible way he could have done it
- nalgeon 3y ago
  Definitely not "simple code is stupid".
  - subjectsigma 3y ago
    Ok well you should work on your writing then because it sucks and doesn’t communicate your points well. If I said “The sky is blue today. So, I went outside.” You would probably be surprised to learn that I hate clear weather and prefer the rain. Because, that would violate the most implicit, obvious assumption in my statement… Likewise you saying “I’m mentally deficient. So I have to use Go” makes it seem pretty fucking obvious to me what you think about Go programmers and programming in general
    - lproven 3y ago
      You've totally failed to understand what the essay is about, and you are angrily trying to argue your incorrect understanding with the author when it is not what he said.
    - nalgeon 3y ago
      It's good to know I'm not the only one who has trouble with basic logical reasoning!
      - subjectsigma 3y ago
        Shit, maybe I should have taken your post literally, you do seem like an idiot.

ninetyninenine 3y ago

I think he's being self aware and honest. I seem mean here but I'm more just trying to be honest. The telling metric is his leet code performance. I'm positive he can be a good programmer in what he does but there are definitely smarter programmers then him in the world. Faang companies will filter for this and despite that I still think he may be able to train himself to do better on leetcode. But performance on leetcode does correlate with IQ and general intelligence. You would be dishonest with yourself if you can't accept that.

dartos 3y ago
> leetcode correlate with IQ and general intelligence Links? Kind of sounds like something you just have a gut feeling on.
- afpx 3y ago
  Yeah, apparently I have a very high IQ but I still suck at programming. I often wonder if they tested me wrong, but I was tested twice. IDK Anyone else like this? Maybe I have a learning disability or something.
  - ninetyninenine 3y ago
    I've heard of this. Dyslexia maybe?
  - pavel_lishin 3y ago
    I have an above-average IQ, but there are certain things that I find very hard that are easy for other people. IQ isn't a universal "you're good at everything" score, even if it was an objectively good measure of intellience.
    - ninetyninenine 3y ago
      101 is above average 110 is where there should be notable advantage in more things as it's 1 std above the norm. The higher your IQ the more and more universal it tends to become. So at say 150 you would notice that you would find most tasks easier then most people then say 110 where you would find less tasks more easier.

kys_now 3y ago

[dead]

lsofzz 3y ago

> This post feels especially jaded and anti-intellectual. Writing simple code isn’t stupid, why be so harsh on yourself? The reason I think self-critique takes a rather extreme turn is because of anxiety. If we analyse the root cause, there may be more than _just_ anxiety at play but I do feel it plays a significant role(IANAD though; just an observer). Every programmer first and foremost are humans. And as humans, we are bounded by the highs and lows of the software we develop. Some of the low self-esteem can come because _life_; some might be because they hold their bar too high to achieve dramatically; some because, they might think of engineering software as an easy-peasy task but find that it can _sometime_ come with unseen/unheard baggages; all or partial part of the aforementioned causes could lead further to be in said state of mind. To some extent, we(as in software people) need to be brave, hold our self beliefs/values, try to elevate our self-esteem and recommend our friends/family/colleagues to do the same. It's this collective esteem that will carry us together in this journey. It's not easy to overcome fear, anxiety, depression or any other state of mind(IANAD though; just an observer). I am cognisant of the fact that it is definitely easier said than done but do note that humans are capable of achieving marvelous things both intellectually and viscerally. Perhaps, try to be social, go out and about, have hobbies, meditation, hiking, exercise - just to name a few that helped others I have met. Last but not the least, I cannot let myself buy the argument that someone thinks of themselves as dumb. It's extremely more likely that one has not had the opportunity to have the __foundational__ understanding and the shift required to think laterally in those terms. To acquire those, perhaps try to read more books and experiment more. These are more valuable use of time IMHO than to be harsh on oneself. But, to re-iterate, we are all humans at the end of the day. https://bluehackers.org/ https://bluehackers.org/

yungporko 3y ago

there's nothing like that in the article, he's just outlining the things he does to compensate for his perceived low intelligence. you clearly came in here with an axe to grind based on your other replies but this blog post is not the reason your feelings are hurt.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
subjectsigma 3y ago
My comment(s): “I don’t like this here is why” Your comment: “No you’re wrong because I don’t like your tone” Next time you comment, can you say something intelligent or at least relevant to the discussion?