16 ms·

Wow, are you seriously generalizing out of your anecdotes? This is incredibly harmful, and reason why women don't feel welcome in CS. So I guess I can tell you

Wow, are you seriously generalizing out of your anecdotes? This is incredibly harmful, and reason why women don't feel welcome in CS. So I guess I can tell you a couple of my anecdotes, to make up for that one, uh? One: I am an expat in a country with a pretty difficult language. Within my circle of expat friends (all couples), only the women had taken the time, investment and effort to go deep and learn the local language. In ALL cases she knows the language better than her male partner. Two: At last job I met a woman who moved from accounting to CS in her late 30's. It was her second CS job, and in 3 years she "overtook" me in the company technical ranks, very deservedly so. I could make a very long list, but I'll leave it here. So please stop being a judging jerk.

lynx23 3y ago
Your experiences being positive while mine not so much automatically invalidates mine and makes your more valid? I believe not. I am happy that you have more positive experiences then mine, no worries. However, it is in the human nature that we can only extrapolate from personal experiences. You can believe in things which havent beeen confirmed by your experience, but that is mostly wishful thinking.
- jamager 3y ago
  Wishful thinking: I believe that the earth is round, even if I have not confirmed it with my own experience by walking around it. As I also believe that women are as willing and capable to learn "deep stuff" as men, regardless of my (or your) experiences.
Jensson 3y ago
Women likes language and things related to social experiences more than men, so you seeing women learning languages faster and better makes sense. You see girls outperforming boys in language classes throughout schools all over the world. But the other side of that coin, boys outperforming girls in technical classes is also a thing.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Both of those things are not true so.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    It is 100% true according to all the data we have. Girls are relatively better at language, boys are relatively better at math everywhere. Look at Figure 2 on page 7, shows every country has a massive gap where girls do much better on reading and boys do much better on maths relatively. The only effect you see is that more progressive countries the girls perform better and better on both, and the less progressive girls do worse and worse until boys are about as good as them at reading but massively better at math, but everywhere you see the same trend of girls preferring reading and boys preferring math. https://docs.iza.org/dp6338.pdf https://docs.iza.org/dp6338.pdf
    - hef19898 3y ago
      And all the studies done to understand those numbers show the difference in outcome is driven by tze social environment and esucation systems, and not the sexe. You, of course, will ignore that I am sure. I hate it when the menoshpere invades HN, my last save place on the internet. If that continues, I'll just have to leave I guess.
      - Jensson 3y ago
        > And all the studies done to understand those numbers show the difference in outcome is driven by tze social environment and esucation systems, and not the sexe. No this is wrong, the studies done has shown that you can make girls do better and boys do worse by priming them. No study done has shown that you can eliminate this gap, just move it towards boys or girls being advantaged. > You, of course, will ignore that I am sure No, I read those studies. The stereotype threat paper just show that you can boost girls performance at the cost of boys performance and thus get equal performance at math, not that you can get relative equal performance at math and language. No such paper has shown that you can eliminate the language-math gap between girls and boys, and all data shows that the language-math divide for boys and girls stays the same. So, all the progressive help to get girls better at math just made girls equal to boys at math, but now girls has an enormous advantage at language because they boosted girls score overall, they didn't make things equal.

lynx23 3y ago

Your experiences being positive while mine not so much automatically invalidates mine and makes your more valid? I believe not. I am happy that you have more positive experiences then mine, no worries. However, it is in the human nature that we can only extrapolate from personal experiences. You can believe in things which havent beeen confirmed by your experience, but that is mostly wishful thinking.

jamager 3y ago
Wishful thinking: I believe that the earth is round, even if I have not confirmed it with my own experience by walking around it. As I also believe that women are as willing and capable to learn "deep stuff" as men, regardless of my (or your) experiences.

Jensson 3y ago

Women likes language and things related to social experiences more than men, so you seeing women learning languages faster and better makes sense. You see girls outperforming boys in language classes throughout schools all over the world. But the other side of that coin, boys outperforming girls in technical classes is also a thing.

hef19898 3y ago
Both of those things are not true so.
- Jensson 3y ago
  It is 100% true according to all the data we have. Girls are relatively better at language, boys are relatively better at math everywhere. Look at Figure 2 on page 7, shows every country has a massive gap where girls do much better on reading and boys do much better on maths relatively. The only effect you see is that more progressive countries the girls perform better and better on both, and the less progressive girls do worse and worse until boys are about as good as them at reading but massively better at math, but everywhere you see the same trend of girls preferring reading and boys preferring math. https://docs.iza.org/dp6338.pdf https://docs.iza.org/dp6338.pdf
  - hef19898 3y ago
    And all the studies done to understand those numbers show the difference in outcome is driven by tze social environment and esucation systems, and not the sexe. You, of course, will ignore that I am sure. I hate it when the menoshpere invades HN, my last save place on the internet. If that continues, I'll just have to leave I guess.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      > And all the studies done to understand those numbers show the difference in outcome is driven by tze social environment and esucation systems, and not the sexe. No this is wrong, the studies done has shown that you can make girls do better and boys do worse by priming them. No study done has shown that you can eliminate this gap, just move it towards boys or girls being advantaged. > You, of course, will ignore that I am sure No, I read those studies. The stereotype threat paper just show that you can boost girls performance at the cost of boys performance and thus get equal performance at math, not that you can get relative equal performance at math and language. No such paper has shown that you can eliminate the language-math gap between girls and boys, and all data shows that the language-math divide for boys and girls stays the same. So, all the progressive help to get girls better at math just made girls equal to boys at math, but now girls has an enormous advantage at language because they boosted girls score overall, they didn't make things equal.