4 ms·

Am I reading this right in that Red has somehow managed to patent the idea of compressing 4K RAW footage on device which holds up the whole industry?

KaiserPro 3y ago
the patent is this one: https://patents.google.com/patent/US7830967B1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US7830967B1/en Which looks like it's patenting debayering. However I'm not a patent lawyer so I don't know. I suspect that Nikon were using something like jpeg2000 to store raw frames, and thats why RED were getting all pissy.
- hnenjoyer_93 3y ago
  Maybe, Redcode is based on JPEG2000 https://youtu.be/IJ_uo-x7Dc0 https://youtu.be/IJ_uo-x7Dc0
  - KaiserPro 3y ago
    > Maybe, Redcode is based on JPEG2000 Oh it is JPEG2000, I _think_ it used to be stored in a tar-like wrapper, but I could be misremembering. however It is 100% JPEG2000.
- ryandamm 3y ago
  It’s patenting compressing the raw photo site values before debayering, which saves space and in theory allows for better, non-realtime debayering algorithms (more relevant when the patent was filed).
  - redeeman 3y ago
    if its not an actual algorithm, but merely the thought of compressing the raw data (im not saying it is/isnt, I dont know), then its obviously totally ridiculous, and frankly, anyone that would even presume to think one should apply for such a patent should just be taken out back and disposed of. And then of course the patent office aswell
kamranjon 3y ago
It must be a specific implementation because Black Magic has had their own brand of this for years and don’t seem to have been targeted by RED, though I may be out of the loop on something?
- formerly_proven 3y ago
  Blackmagic raw is actually debayered in the camera, which would avoid RED’s “compress raw video by color plane” patent. > A drawback of Blackmagic RAW over other RAW formats is that it does a partial de-bayer within the camera. This means that you are not actually working with fully raw data from the camera sensor. According to the Blackmagic website the “noise management, sensor profiling and new edge reconstruction algorithms” are part of the partial de-mosaic.
bravo22 3y ago
Not quite. The claims, in the only one I've seen regarding RAW compression, are for a specific pre-emphasis curve being applied to the raw data, then the raw data being compressed and only cover this being done in a video camera. When looking at a patent check the "Claims" section. An infringing device would have to perform those steps in the order provided for the patent holder to have a claim. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, but I've had a lot of dealing with patents.

KaiserPro 3y ago

the patent is this one: https://patents.google.com/patent/US7830967B1/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US7830967B1/en Which looks like it's patenting debayering. However I'm not a patent lawyer so I don't know. I suspect that Nikon were using something like jpeg2000 to store raw frames, and thats why RED were getting all pissy.

hnenjoyer_93 3y ago
Maybe, Redcode is based on JPEG2000 https://youtu.be/IJ_uo-x7Dc0 https://youtu.be/IJ_uo-x7Dc0
- KaiserPro 3y ago
  > Maybe, Redcode is based on JPEG2000 Oh it is JPEG2000, I _think_ it used to be stored in a tar-like wrapper, but I could be misremembering. however It is 100% JPEG2000.
ryandamm 3y ago
It’s patenting compressing the raw photo site values before debayering, which saves space and in theory allows for better, non-realtime debayering algorithms (more relevant when the patent was filed).
- redeeman 3y ago
  if its not an actual algorithm, but merely the thought of compressing the raw data (im not saying it is/isnt, I dont know), then its obviously totally ridiculous, and frankly, anyone that would even presume to think one should apply for such a patent should just be taken out back and disposed of. And then of course the patent office aswell

kamranjon 3y ago

It must be a specific implementation because Black Magic has had their own brand of this for years and don’t seem to have been targeted by RED, though I may be out of the loop on something?

formerly_proven 3y ago
Blackmagic raw is actually debayered in the camera, which would avoid RED’s “compress raw video by color plane” patent. > A drawback of Blackmagic RAW over other RAW formats is that it does a partial de-bayer within the camera. This means that you are not actually working with fully raw data from the camera sensor. According to the Blackmagic website the “noise management, sensor profiling and new edge reconstruction algorithms” are part of the partial de-mosaic.

bravo22 3y ago

Not quite. The claims, in the only one I've seen regarding RAW compression, are for a specific pre-emphasis curve being applied to the raw data, then the raw data being compressed and only cover this being done in a video camera. When looking at a patent check the "Claims" section. An infringing device would have to perform those steps in the order provided for the patent holder to have a claim. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, but I've had a lot of dealing with patents.