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The Digital Markets Act is in force What happens now?

dannymoerkerke 3y ago
The Digital Markets Act (DMA) is now in force. Here's a breakdown of what that means.
matricaria 3y ago
I’m very excited about WhatsApp having to interoperate with other messengers. As far as I know this starts Monday. But I also read that most other messengers are not interested as it would hurt their users privacy. Does anyone know if interoperability with XMPP or Matrix will be possible?
- MattJ100 3y ago
  XMPP and Matrix already have WhatsApp bridges, though through they are not officially supported or accepted by WhatsApp. Hopefully what will change now is that such bridges can be updated to use officially-supported methods, which (if WhatsApp play nice) means they will be more reliable and user-friendly than they are today.
  - bcye 3y ago
    Isn't the bigger issue that these bridges require you still to have a whatsapp account? So it's just a different frontend, but you're still bound by Meta's TOS, PP and data collection.
    - skydhash 3y ago
      It’s like sending an email to someone’s gmail address! Its content will be scanned, but yon don’t have to deal with Gmail running on your computer. With this, you can have a nicer client (especially desktop) that don’t have whatever unnecessary features WhatsApp wants to promote (like status and channels). Discord, Slack, Teams and Spotify are other services that are begging for alternative frontend.
- HarrisonFisk 3y ago
  https://engineering.fb.com/2024/03/06/security/whatsapp-messenger-messaging-interoperability-eu/ https://engineering.fb.com/2024/03/06/security/whatsapp-mess...
  - PlutoIsAPlanet 3y ago
    In fairness to Facebook this is a very well written and fair post. This is how the DMA should be done.
- Arathorn 3y ago
  https://element.io/blog/the-eu-digital-markets-act-is-here/ https://element.io/blog/the-eu-digital-markets-act-is-here/ gives some answers on the Matrix side
Klaus23 3y ago
I didn't know about the "free of charge" clause. Apple's Core Technology Fee will be absolutely destroyed.
- blashyrk 3y ago
  [dead]
- occz 3y ago
  I would love to see the EU swiftly put down the law and make an example of Apple in this case. I'm sure it won't take too many 10% of global revenue-fines before they get in line.
  - nozzlegear 3y ago
    Why should the EU fine 10% of Apple's global revenue when they're violating an EU-specific law? Shouldn't they just fine 10% of EU revenue? > I'm sure it won't take too many 10% of global revenue-fines before they get in line. I'm sure it won't take too many of those before Apple just decides to leave the EU wholesale, as it only accounts for around 10% of their own annual revenue.
    - mik1998 3y ago
      The EU should fine as much as it is necessary to financially impact the corporation for violating the laws.
    - aaomidi 3y ago
      > Why should the EU fine 10% of Apple's global revenue when they're violating an EU-specific law? Shouldn't they just fine 10% of EU revenue? The precedent for global enforcement of rules has already been set by the US.
    - extraduder_ire 3y ago
      It's global revenue (all the way up the ownership structure) because that closes one of the world's most obvious loopholes, where you create an EU-based subsidiary that takes a tiny commission for selling products/services from non-EU companies, therefore having minimal revenue to fine. The GDPR fine structure works the same way. Though, 10% is a limit, fines usually start smaller. If you've read up on BEPS, or most forms of tax-minimization that occur in EU countries, it makes perfect sense that they'd expect that to happen.
classified 3y ago
Rumors have it that Apple won't remove home screen web apps in iOS 17.4 after all, but I don't trust them. Did anybody install 17.4 already? Are home screen web apps still there?
- dannymoerkerke 3y ago
  Yes, the work correctly again in the EU.
- kruuuder 3y ago
  It's not a rumor, Apple has officially confirmed it, see https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu#dev-qa https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu#d...
  - classified 3y ago
    Where in that endless wall of corporate effluent do they speak about home screen web apps?
    - zagrebian 3y ago
      “UPDATE: Previously, Apple announced plans to remove the Home Screen web apps capability in the EU as part of our efforts to comply with the DMA. The need to remove the capability was informed by the complex security and privacy concerns associated with web apps to support alternative browser engines that would require building a new integration architecture that does not currently exist in iOS. We have received requests to continue to offer support for Home Screen web apps in iOS, therefore we will continue to offer the existing Home Screen web apps capability in the EU. This support means Home Screen web apps continue to be built directly on WebKit and its security architecture, and align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS. Developers and users who may have been impacted by the removal of Home Screen web apps in the beta release of iOS in the EU can expect the return of the existing functionality for Home Screen web apps with the availability of iOS 17.4 in early March.”
gorbypark 3y ago
A bit off topic, but does anyone know how "EU" only features/changes are determined? I'm Canadian by citizenship but live in Europe. My Apple account is still tied to Canada mainly due to having my Canadian bank/credit cards tied to that account. Would I need to officially change countries? Start a new Apple account? Does it matter that my phone was purchased in Canada? I'm hoping that it might be tied to the SIM card somehow, since I have a European carrier, obviously.
- dannymoerkerke 3y ago
  It is tied to your SIM card so when in the EU you should get the European "features".
  - yogorenapan 3y ago
    What if you don’t have a SIM card?
    - gorbypark 3y ago
      I think this information might be incorrect. I upgraded to 17.4 on an iPhone purchased in Canada, with an Apple account based in Canada but with a EU SIM card and being physically located in the EU and didn't get the "pick a browser" dialog when opening Safari. I think it might not be SIM based after all. The only possible thing I could think of is that I have an activated but turned off eSIM from Canada on the phone as well. The physical SIM is EU, though (and is what is turned on and connected to the towers).
  - gorbypark 3y ago
    That's great news, thanks!

The Digital Markets Act (DMA) is now in force. Here's a breakdown of what that means.

I’m very excited about WhatsApp having to interoperate with other messengers. As far as I know this starts Monday. But I also read that most other messengers are not interested as it would hurt their users privacy. Does anyone know if interoperability with XMPP or Matrix will be possible?

MattJ100 3y ago
XMPP and Matrix already have WhatsApp bridges, though through they are not officially supported or accepted by WhatsApp. Hopefully what will change now is that such bridges can be updated to use officially-supported methods, which (if WhatsApp play nice) means they will be more reliable and user-friendly than they are today.
- bcye 3y ago
  Isn't the bigger issue that these bridges require you still to have a whatsapp account? So it's just a different frontend, but you're still bound by Meta's TOS, PP and data collection.
  - skydhash 3y ago
    It’s like sending an email to someone’s gmail address! Its content will be scanned, but yon don’t have to deal with Gmail running on your computer. With this, you can have a nicer client (especially desktop) that don’t have whatever unnecessary features WhatsApp wants to promote (like status and channels). Discord, Slack, Teams and Spotify are other services that are begging for alternative frontend.
HarrisonFisk 3y ago
https://engineering.fb.com/2024/03/06/security/whatsapp-messenger-messaging-interoperability-eu/ https://engineering.fb.com/2024/03/06/security/whatsapp-mess...
- PlutoIsAPlanet 3y ago
  In fairness to Facebook this is a very well written and fair post. This is how the DMA should be done.
Arathorn 3y ago
https://element.io/blog/the-eu-digital-markets-act-is-here/ https://element.io/blog/the-eu-digital-markets-act-is-here/ gives some answers on the Matrix side

Klaus23 3y ago

I didn't know about the "free of charge" clause. Apple's Core Technology Fee will be absolutely destroyed.

blashyrk 3y ago
[dead]
occz 3y ago
I would love to see the EU swiftly put down the law and make an example of Apple in this case. I'm sure it won't take too many 10% of global revenue-fines before they get in line.
- nozzlegear 3y ago
  Why should the EU fine 10% of Apple's global revenue when they're violating an EU-specific law? Shouldn't they just fine 10% of EU revenue? > I'm sure it won't take too many 10% of global revenue-fines before they get in line. I'm sure it won't take too many of those before Apple just decides to leave the EU wholesale, as it only accounts for around 10% of their own annual revenue.
  - mik1998 3y ago
    The EU should fine as much as it is necessary to financially impact the corporation for violating the laws.
  - aaomidi 3y ago
    > Why should the EU fine 10% of Apple's global revenue when they're violating an EU-specific law? Shouldn't they just fine 10% of EU revenue? The precedent for global enforcement of rules has already been set by the US.
  - extraduder_ire 3y ago
    It's global revenue (all the way up the ownership structure) because that closes one of the world's most obvious loopholes, where you create an EU-based subsidiary that takes a tiny commission for selling products/services from non-EU companies, therefore having minimal revenue to fine. The GDPR fine structure works the same way. Though, 10% is a limit, fines usually start smaller. If you've read up on BEPS, or most forms of tax-minimization that occur in EU countries, it makes perfect sense that they'd expect that to happen.

classified 3y ago

Rumors have it that Apple won't remove home screen web apps in iOS 17.4 after all, but I don't trust them. Did anybody install 17.4 already? Are home screen web apps still there?

dannymoerkerke 3y ago
Yes, the work correctly again in the EU.
kruuuder 3y ago
It's not a rumor, Apple has officially confirmed it, see https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu#dev-qa https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu#d...
- classified 3y ago
  Where in that endless wall of corporate effluent do they speak about home screen web apps?
  - zagrebian 3y ago
    “UPDATE: Previously, Apple announced plans to remove the Home Screen web apps capability in the EU as part of our efforts to comply with the DMA. The need to remove the capability was informed by the complex security and privacy concerns associated with web apps to support alternative browser engines that would require building a new integration architecture that does not currently exist in iOS. We have received requests to continue to offer support for Home Screen web apps in iOS, therefore we will continue to offer the existing Home Screen web apps capability in the EU. This support means Home Screen web apps continue to be built directly on WebKit and its security architecture, and align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS. Developers and users who may have been impacted by the removal of Home Screen web apps in the beta release of iOS in the EU can expect the return of the existing functionality for Home Screen web apps with the availability of iOS 17.4 in early March.”

gorbypark 3y ago

A bit off topic, but does anyone know how "EU" only features/changes are determined? I'm Canadian by citizenship but live in Europe. My Apple account is still tied to Canada mainly due to having my Canadian bank/credit cards tied to that account. Would I need to officially change countries? Start a new Apple account? Does it matter that my phone was purchased in Canada? I'm hoping that it might be tied to the SIM card somehow, since I have a European carrier, obviously.

dannymoerkerke 3y ago
It is tied to your SIM card so when in the EU you should get the European "features".
- yogorenapan 3y ago
  What if you don’t have a SIM card?
  - gorbypark 3y ago
    I think this information might be incorrect. I upgraded to 17.4 on an iPhone purchased in Canada, with an Apple account based in Canada but with a EU SIM card and being physically located in the EU and didn't get the "pick a browser" dialog when opening Safari. I think it might not be SIM based after all. The only possible thing I could think of is that I have an activated but turned off eSIM from Canada on the phone as well. The physical SIM is EU, though (and is what is turned on and connected to the towers).
- gorbypark 3y ago
  That's great news, thanks!