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After 30 years of being highly positive towards more women in CS, and only seeing a handful of actual good examples, I can't get around the observation that wom
by lynx23 3y ago
After 30 years of being highly positive towards more women in CS, and only seeing a handful of actual good examples, I can't get around the observation that women by large can't be bothered with tasks where they have to go deep and invest a lot of time learning new stuff. I just recently had the example in my friend circles. She used to work in a different field, and decided to switch to working with computers as a new job. The original argument was something like "I know how to use MS Word, so I am going to be a computer expert." Then there were 3 intenships, which all ended the same way. And once she was asked to learn Python to do a little coding, she dropped the ball completely and is now trying to become a singer. No joke. And she is not alone. I would love to have different experiences, but anecdotally, females are not willing to invest as much time as males when it comes to tech jobs.
- defrost 3y agoProbably generational, in my experience women have written control systems for the Concorde, full geophysical aquisition and control systems, developed robotic control libraries in the 1980s for bleeding edge technology, built systems for recognising sign language in real time, backends for medical imaging, abstract algebraic engines that have broken proposed quantuum computer proof encryption candidates, and more. I guess our anecdata varies by the people we surround ourselves with.
- lynx23 3y agoWell, reading between the lines it seems like you are working as a coder, given what people you know. Me is just an admin. So that alone explains the difference between our perceived stories.
- ciiicici 3y agoPerhaps it is sexist attitudes like yours that discourage women from staying in tech. Being targeted by misogyny day in day out isn't exactly a positive work environment.
- lynx23 3y agoI am disabled. I am being targeted by random people who treat me like a subhuman on a daily basis. I am being subjected to patronisation on a regular basis. And I am still here, and doing my job. People like you naming me misogynistic is rather low on my list of insults. Dont lecture me about complications when dealing with peers. I know more about that then you will (luckily) ever experience yourself. So keep your accusations, I am not interested. IOW, I have no sympathy for whining. Life is hard, people need to own up, period.
- anshorei 3y agoI've always been very supportive of women interested in IT, and yet my experience is also that ... they just aren't as interested as men on average. Just calling anyone with that experience a misogynist is not helping anyone except your own ego.
- jamager 3y agoWow, are you seriously generalizing out of your anecdotes? This is incredibly harmful, and reason why women don't feel welcome in CS. So I guess I can tell you a couple of my anecdotes, to make up for that one, uh? One: I am an expat in a country with a pretty difficult language. Within my circle of expat friends (all couples), only the women had taken the time, investment and effort to go deep and learn the local language. In ALL cases she knows the language better than her male partner. Two: At last job I met a woman who moved from accounting to CS in her late 30's. It was her second CS job, and in 3 years she "overtook" me in the company technical ranks, very deservedly so. I could make a very long list, but I'll leave it here. So please stop being a judging jerk.
- lynx23 3y agoYour experiences being positive while mine not so much automatically invalidates mine and makes your more valid? I believe not. I am happy that you have more positive experiences then mine, no worries. However, it is in the human nature that we can only extrapolate from personal experiences. You can believe in things which havent beeen confirmed by your experience, but that is mostly wishful thinking.
- jamager 3y agoWishful thinking: I believe that the earth is round, even if I have not confirmed it with my own experience by walking around it. As I also believe that women are as willing and capable to learn "deep stuff" as men, regardless of my (or your) experiences.
- Jensson 3y agoWomen likes language and things related to social experiences more than men, so you seeing women learning languages faster and better makes sense. You see girls outperforming boys in language classes throughout schools all over the world. But the other side of that coin, boys outperforming girls in technical classes is also a thing.
- hef19898 3y ago