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> ...when you swap in "Product Leader" for "king," I can't help myself but swap it with the German translation of "Leader", which is "Führer". Especially when

> ...when you swap in "Product Leader" for "king," I can't help myself but swap it with the German translation of "Leader", which is "Führer". Especially when somebody insists on calling himself a "Leader" (in English) in an otherwise German conversation, which unfortunately is quite common.

ben_w 3y ago
As an English person learning German, it was quite a shock to realise that the word/word fragment „Führer“ („Geschäftsführer“) really is just a normal word with a boring meaning. Also „Reich“ („Königreich“) and „Anschluss“ („Hausanschlussraum“).
- Tabular-Iceberg 3y ago
  The thousand year Reich quickly turned into a thousand year curse, where they can’t do or say anything without people making it all about the Nazis.
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    That's just because they invite it. https://satwcomic.com/not-a-yahtzee https://satwcomic.com/not-a-yahtzee If Germany acted less neurotic, they'd draw less commentary.
- carschno 3y ago
  If you are interested in that specific aspect, I recommend you to read "LTI" by Victor Klemperer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTI_%E2%80%93_Lingua_Tertii_Imperii https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTI_%E2%80%93_Lingua_Tertii_Im... > LTI demonstrates changes in the German language in most of the population. In contrast, the text also emphasizes the idea that resistance to oppression begins by questioning the constant use of buzzwords.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    Huh, one of those reminded me of post-9/11 American euphemisms: > Verschärfte Vernehmung ("strengthened interrogation"): torture And the prefix „Welt-“ ("world-") reminds me of British politicians repeatedly calling their policies "world-leading" or "world-class".
    - carschno 3y ago
      Sure, euphemisms are an essential component of any kind of propaganda. To some degree, this includes legitimate campaigning in democracies. What the Nazis implemented to a unique extent was the process of (re-)defining words in a specific meaning. This happened top-down and censorship not only acted passively (disallow certain publications), but the propaganda actively pushed the terminology and narratives to use by the media. The recurrent use of seemingly harmless words in specific ways impacted the society much longer than the Nazis were in charge. Some seemingly unpolitical narratives have lived on until today. Fortunately, the (Western) allies realized that they needed to counter this after the war, but of course the denazification has not been able to undo all the damage.
- marban 3y ago
  Yet we all want to be reich.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    Also confusing to encounter words whose meaning changes from an inaudible capital letter („Reich“ ~= empire, realm; „reich“ = rich). At least „die See“/„der See“ (ocean/lake) are at least both about water you can put a boat on. „Briefkasten“ is a fun one, coming from English. Sounds like "briefcase". Same etymology, both are boxes that you put letters into, it's just that the English one is the thing you carry to work, and the German one is part of the postal system.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  "Führer" is these days quite rare to use as its own standalone word. You'd rather say "Leiter" or perhaps "Anführer" instead.
Tabular-Iceberg 3y ago
I always get a chuckle looking at my driver’s license and seeing that I’m a certified Führer in Germany.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lynx23 3y ago
  Its a rather old joke that when political correct speech is overdiscussed, one guy will ask: "Aber Führerschein ist schon noch erlaubt, oder?" (But drivers-licence is still a legal word, right?)
  - signa11 3y ago
    i have a tangential question: is this thread an example of goodwin’s law ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#:~:text=Godwin%27s%20law%2C%20short%20for%20Godwin%27s,Nazis%20or%20Hitler%20approaches%201.%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#:~:text=Godwin%...
    - scotty79 3y ago
      I don't think so. This law is about using nazi in counterargument to something not just barely mentioning them.
    - stavros 3y ago
      No, but this thread is an example of the use-mention distinction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinctio...

ben_w 3y ago

As an English person learning German, it was quite a shock to realise that the word/word fragment „Führer“ („Geschäftsführer“) really is just a normal word with a boring meaning. Also „Reich“ („Königreich“) and „Anschluss“ („Hausanschlussraum“).

Tabular-Iceberg 3y ago
The thousand year Reich quickly turned into a thousand year curse, where they can’t do or say anything without people making it all about the Nazis.
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  That's just because they invite it. https://satwcomic.com/not-a-yahtzee https://satwcomic.com/not-a-yahtzee If Germany acted less neurotic, they'd draw less commentary.
carschno 3y ago
If you are interested in that specific aspect, I recommend you to read "LTI" by Victor Klemperer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTI_%E2%80%93_Lingua_Tertii_Imperii https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LTI_%E2%80%93_Lingua_Tertii_Im... > LTI demonstrates changes in the German language in most of the population. In contrast, the text also emphasizes the idea that resistance to oppression begins by questioning the constant use of buzzwords.
- ben_w 3y ago
  Huh, one of those reminded me of post-9/11 American euphemisms: > Verschärfte Vernehmung ("strengthened interrogation"): torture And the prefix „Welt-“ ("world-") reminds me of British politicians repeatedly calling their policies "world-leading" or "world-class".
  - carschno 3y ago
    Sure, euphemisms are an essential component of any kind of propaganda. To some degree, this includes legitimate campaigning in democracies. What the Nazis implemented to a unique extent was the process of (re-)defining words in a specific meaning. This happened top-down and censorship not only acted passively (disallow certain publications), but the propaganda actively pushed the terminology and narratives to use by the media. The recurrent use of seemingly harmless words in specific ways impacted the society much longer than the Nazis were in charge. Some seemingly unpolitical narratives have lived on until today. Fortunately, the (Western) allies realized that they needed to counter this after the war, but of course the denazification has not been able to undo all the damage.
marban 3y ago
Yet we all want to be reich.
- ben_w 3y ago
  Also confusing to encounter words whose meaning changes from an inaudible capital letter („Reich“ ~= empire, realm; „reich“ = rich). At least „die See“/„der See“ (ocean/lake) are at least both about water you can put a boat on. „Briefkasten“ is a fun one, coming from English. Sounds like "briefcase". Same etymology, both are boxes that you put letters into, it's just that the English one is the thing you carry to work, and the German one is part of the postal system.
The_Colonel 3y ago
"Führer" is these days quite rare to use as its own standalone word. You'd rather say "Leiter" or perhaps "Anführer" instead.

Tabular-Iceberg 3y ago

I always get a chuckle looking at my driver’s license and seeing that I’m a certified Führer in Germany.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
lynx23 3y ago
Its a rather old joke that when political correct speech is overdiscussed, one guy will ask: "Aber Führerschein ist schon noch erlaubt, oder?" (But drivers-licence is still a legal word, right?)
- signa11 3y ago
  i have a tangential question: is this thread an example of goodwin’s law ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#:~:text=Godwin%27s%20law%2C%20short%20for%20Godwin%27s,Nazis%20or%20Hitler%20approaches%201.%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#:~:text=Godwin%...
  - scotty79 3y ago
    I don't think so. This law is about using nazi in counterargument to something not just barely mentioning them.
  - stavros 3y ago
    No, but this thread is an example of the use-mention distinction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinctio...