7 ms·

ASML may be looking to leave the Netherlands

40 points by gok 3y ago

cma 3y ago
Just curious given their role in the world economy, are they above sea-level there?
- bobs_salsa 3y ago
  ASML is located in the south of the Netherlands in Maastricht which sits at around 50m above sea-level. So they have nothing to worry about on the climate change front
  - smallhands 3y ago
    50m above sea is not that safe !
    - duskwuff 3y ago
      50m is a lot. Somewhere around 25-30% of the world's population lives below 50m MSL; if something were to happen that even threatened a facility at 50m, semiconductors are pretty far down our list of concerns.
    - imiric 3y ago
      The Netherlands is possibly the safest (coastal) country in the world when it comes to rising sea levels. They've been taking back land from water for centuries.
  - martijnvds 3y ago
    ASML is in Eindhoven, an hour's drive north of Maastricht.
ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago
> A significant portion of ASML's workforce, about 40%, consists of labor migrants. The company has expressed concerns about the potential tightening of labor migration rules by a new right-wing cabinet, which could hinder its ability to hire new personnel and grow
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  I love it when right wing political muppets are being shut down by innovative companies. What a lot of xenofobic pundits from wealthy counties who vote right wing don't understand, is that a lot of their economic growth they saw in the last decade or two came BECAUSE of migration. Would be curious if they're ready to put their money where their mouth is, as in, accept economic contraction for the sake of "getting rid of foreigners".
  - beretguy 3y ago
    Why is migration considered a good thing? Migrants are taking away jobs from locals. Moving places is hard, you leave family and friends behind. It’s better when everybody finds jobs locally where they live.
    - notanormalnerd 3y ago
      The EU overall is in a less than reproduction rate. With less than two kinds per woman on average. With the boomer generation going into pension now there are a lot of jobs left unassigned. At the same time people are getting better educated and strive for higher jobs. The notion that immigrants take away jobs is bullshit that has been fed to you by exactly those right wing shills. It's not the 2000nds anymore. We need so many workers l, especially in those low wage/low skill jobs. At the same time employing an immigrant is much harder cultural wise that every employer probably picks a local over a immigrant when having the choice. But feel free to talk to any recruiter.
      - vivekd 3y ago
        They said that about Canada too. As a result we had a surge in immigration that led to huge jumps in youth unemployment. If companies are so desperate for workers why are wages stagnant and why are so many people getting ghosted during job interviews and why does it take so many applications to find a job. This doesn't add up. We have record numbers of women in the workforce basically doubling the number of workers compared to the 50s. But apparently we can't find workers. And now we're right wing racists because we object to you bringing in people from low income countries to work low skill entry level positions in a proposed system that a little too closely resembles colonial era slave trade. Meanwhile there's a huge strain on housing prices and infrastructure and social services as we struggle to absorb this influx - why so corporations can have higher profit margins. So GDP can get a little higher. And these clueless out of touch elites wonder why people are moving to the far right.
jbverschoor 3y ago
May? Most likely will.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Where would they go? Germany? They don't give any tax breaks for migrant workers there. Actually nobody else in the EU does, it's only a Netherlands feature. Switzerland? It's even more difficult to get work visas there. US? Same and you need to pay even higher wages. Belgium? UK? Luxemburg?
  - vivekd 3y ago
    Canada, our government's happy to have companies bring in underpaid foreign labour instead of hiring locals. Sad that hasn't really gotten is anywhere in terms of attracting business investment. I think maybe we should see through the corporate nonsense and stop pandering to these companies and their demands. There's more to being investment friendly than just offering low taxes and a surplus of cheap foreign labour.
    - Moldoteck 3y ago
      canada still mostly pays higher than eu
      - vivekd 3y ago
        Are you serious - if that's the case EU is in serious trouble
        Moldoteck 3y ago
        Col in canada is higher too, weather usually worse, car dependency, so it's not like you'll live much better as a person, it depends on priorities. I was referring more to the fact that it's more expensive for a company to hire there while not getting benefits out of it. You can hire for much cheaper very good devs in poland/romania/spain/italy and somewhat cheaper in western countries like nl, de, fr, dk, norway, etc
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
[dupe] Some more here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39615693 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39615693
PeterStuer 3y ago
FWIW my take would be the EU should not just prevent ASML from leaving, but also prohibit non-EU ownership for regional strategic reasons.
- plextoria 3y ago
  "Prevent" is a strong word. I would say that the best thing EU can do is facilitate conditions that would encourage ASML to stay home. Something obviously isn't going well if ASML can't expand within NL/EU and putting any further restrictions would scare businesses off.
- refurb 3y ago
  How do you “prevent”? Throw employees in jail? Last I check the Dutch have good protection for human rights.
WonderingMary 3y ago
I dont understand right-wing politicians sometimes. Something like this has happened in sweden and now employers there are starving for talent. basically there is a salary limit that changes often and a person who has already met the requirements for a work permit all of a sudden needs to have their salary increased same month the limit changes or face renewal-extension of work permit and immediate deportation. We are not talking here about low-wage workers either (can you imagine the level of knowledge and skills required to work for ASML), why attack that group of people specifically?

40 points by gok 3y ago

cma 3y ago

Just curious given their role in the world economy, are they above sea-level there?

bobs_salsa 3y ago
ASML is located in the south of the Netherlands in Maastricht which sits at around 50m above sea-level. So they have nothing to worry about on the climate change front
- smallhands 3y ago
  50m above sea is not that safe !
  - duskwuff 3y ago
    50m is a lot. Somewhere around 25-30% of the world's population lives below 50m MSL; if something were to happen that even threatened a facility at 50m, semiconductors are pretty far down our list of concerns.
  - imiric 3y ago
    The Netherlands is possibly the safest (coastal) country in the world when it comes to rising sea levels. They've been taking back land from water for centuries.
- martijnvds 3y ago
  ASML is in Eindhoven, an hour's drive north of Maastricht.

ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y ago

> A significant portion of ASML's workforce, about 40%, consists of labor migrants. The company has expressed concerns about the potential tightening of labor migration rules by a new right-wing cabinet, which could hinder its ability to hire new personnel and grow

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
I love it when right wing political muppets are being shut down by innovative companies. What a lot of xenofobic pundits from wealthy counties who vote right wing don't understand, is that a lot of their economic growth they saw in the last decade or two came BECAUSE of migration. Would be curious if they're ready to put their money where their mouth is, as in, accept economic contraction for the sake of "getting rid of foreigners".
- beretguy 3y ago
  Why is migration considered a good thing? Migrants are taking away jobs from locals. Moving places is hard, you leave family and friends behind. It’s better when everybody finds jobs locally where they live.
  - notanormalnerd 3y ago
    The EU overall is in a less than reproduction rate. With less than two kinds per woman on average. With the boomer generation going into pension now there are a lot of jobs left unassigned. At the same time people are getting better educated and strive for higher jobs. The notion that immigrants take away jobs is bullshit that has been fed to you by exactly those right wing shills. It's not the 2000nds anymore. We need so many workers l, especially in those low wage/low skill jobs. At the same time employing an immigrant is much harder cultural wise that every employer probably picks a local over a immigrant when having the choice. But feel free to talk to any recruiter.
    - vivekd 3y ago
      They said that about Canada too. As a result we had a surge in immigration that led to huge jumps in youth unemployment. If companies are so desperate for workers why are wages stagnant and why are so many people getting ghosted during job interviews and why does it take so many applications to find a job. This doesn't add up. We have record numbers of women in the workforce basically doubling the number of workers compared to the 50s. But apparently we can't find workers. And now we're right wing racists because we object to you bringing in people from low income countries to work low skill entry level positions in a proposed system that a little too closely resembles colonial era slave trade. Meanwhile there's a huge strain on housing prices and infrastructure and social services as we struggle to absorb this influx - why so corporations can have higher profit margins. So GDP can get a little higher. And these clueless out of touch elites wonder why people are moving to the far right.

jbverschoor 3y ago

May? Most likely will.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Where would they go? Germany? They don't give any tax breaks for migrant workers there. Actually nobody else in the EU does, it's only a Netherlands feature. Switzerland? It's even more difficult to get work visas there. US? Same and you need to pay even higher wages. Belgium? UK? Luxemburg?
- vivekd 3y ago
  Canada, our government's happy to have companies bring in underpaid foreign labour instead of hiring locals. Sad that hasn't really gotten is anywhere in terms of attracting business investment. I think maybe we should see through the corporate nonsense and stop pandering to these companies and their demands. There's more to being investment friendly than just offering low taxes and a surplus of cheap foreign labour.
  - Moldoteck 3y ago
    canada still mostly pays higher than eu
    - vivekd 3y ago
      Are you serious - if that's the case EU is in serious trouble
      - Moldoteck 3y ago
        Col in canada is higher too, weather usually worse, car dependency, so it's not like you'll live much better as a person, it depends on priorities. I was referring more to the fact that it's more expensive for a company to hire there while not getting benefits out of it. You can hire for much cheaper very good devs in poland/romania/spain/italy and somewhat cheaper in western countries like nl, de, fr, dk, norway, etc

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

[dupe] Some more here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39615693 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39615693

PeterStuer 3y ago

FWIW my take would be the EU should not just prevent ASML from leaving, but also prohibit non-EU ownership for regional strategic reasons.

plextoria 3y ago
"Prevent" is a strong word. I would say that the best thing EU can do is facilitate conditions that would encourage ASML to stay home. Something obviously isn't going well if ASML can't expand within NL/EU and putting any further restrictions would scare businesses off.
refurb 3y ago
How do you “prevent”? Throw employees in jail? Last I check the Dutch have good protection for human rights.

WonderingMary 3y ago

I dont understand right-wing politicians sometimes. Something like this has happened in sweden and now employers there are starving for talent. basically there is a salary limit that changes often and a person who has already met the requirements for a work permit all of a sudden needs to have their salary increased same month the limit changes or face renewal-extension of work permit and immediate deportation. We are not talking here about low-wage workers either (can you imagine the level of knowledge and skills required to work for ASML), why attack that group of people specifically?